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Scientific groundwork [was] HelenOS kernel (Spartan) as a Genode platform
by John Bessa 21 Jan '13

21 Jan '13

To Paul, Tobias, Stephan, and anyone else who is interested. This is in two parts, my immediate "knee-jerk" reaction to yesterday's comments, and a less-spontaneous 24-hour (philosophic/scientific groundwork) approach to the "paucity of drivers" problem --something that will bedevil any OS or framework! Logic is the bread, water and light of computers and networking; logic, from ancient Greek logos is language and meaning (ie definitions) that evolve as human thought evolves (most agree that we are in a state of de-evolution: good or bad depending whom you ask). If nothing, definition is static (ie a platform is what ~the user~ stands on), but often changes "effect" in context (rather than meaning); this is no more true than "synthesis." Norman specifically mentions Genode as "holistic;" the current word for holistic is "whole systems model"and is absent in most scientific research and society's pseudo-scientific "control structures." (At the moment, I am contemplating how to leverage the domain wholesystemsmodel.org.) The text below was my immediate response last night to the previous email subject thread. I had just finished an apple syrup beverage made from a family of semi-wild apple trees that happen to grow near significant markers for the series of rebellions that eventually led the US Bill of Rights--the template for all human rights. These important places include the iron/charcoal furnace where the revolution was initially plotted, and the modest marker of the last battle of Shays Rebellion, the event that forced the constitution. Shays survived to reach Vermont and help found its namesake university with the Green Mountain Boys. So, life is ripe with meaning where I come from. ===Text from last night=== Userland is people, and people have minds. The way the minds work is very much the way the computers work, but far more advanced with such things as emotional intelligence and related empathic communication This idea that the mind gave the CPU its functionality in its context is actually a given to most because, obviously human minds created the CPUs and OSs with memory and interconnection networks. The journey back from the computer and network back to the mind was remarkable, because it can be modeled by the IP stack far better than any previous explanation. Further, the interrelation between parts of the mind uses co-processing CPUs and networks that we take for granted such that if a CPU or network isn't working, it is the first you notice of the remarkable system. Sadly, if one NEVER knew it didn't work (because it stopped working), one you might never know what that component or connection provides for normal humans. That is the scary part, because civilization finds ways to implement minds that are only partially-working in "synthetic" ways. Sometime in the last decade the "civilization process phenomena" became such that the computer stopped being humanly intelligent, especially with behaviors such as "troll-bashing." The communications network--the Internet--became really, really stupid and violent like TV. If you have read about civilization cycles, then you know that the proper next move is to "get back to basics" which means rolling everything back to the point where it made sense (as from a fully functioning mind) and is not just recent rationale (such as in a partially-functioning mind). For technology, this means "rolling" before Y2K, the point where financial corruption poisoned it with the "tech scandal." For civilization, this means looking closely at the gap between Sophocles and Socrates. ===end of last night's text=== Without doubt, the single most important text on the culture of technology is "Technics and Civilization" by Lewis Mumford. Among things, one finds in it critical inquiry into "false charity," which applies to especially to every Information Society corporation (ie. GSoC). I attempted to cover some of Mumford's gaps with my critical inquiry into the "Occupy" movement of New York last Spring (by leveraging past relationships). In parallel, I designed the "empathy model," which leverages the IP stack, as I mention above, to show an important connection between technology and socio-psychology with respect to collaboration: intelligent emotional communication. Given this was the basis of my undergrad and most of my present work, I am sticking with it --and I hope it helps. Regards, John References: Technics and Civilization by Lewis Mumford: http://books.google.ca/books/about/Technics_and_Civilization.html?id=PU7Pkt… My stuff: Empathy Model: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Empathy_Model Current Dialectic: Critical Inquiry into the Occupy Movement by me http://occupy-critical-inquiry.blogspot.com Rattlesnake Rebellion: Economics after Shays Rebellion by me http://johnbessa.com/rattlesnake/

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Tested run/demo on nova: liquid_fb tried to call an invalid object
by Paul Dufresne 21 Jan '13

21 Jan '13

Just giving a small glitch while trying run/demo on Nova (x86_64). First I am using a 2 day old master.zip file of Genode (because I had github not able finishing getting objects in 56k with git clone). However I have a new git clone of Nova that did work fine. Note 1: Genode seems to get latest version of Nova by a simple git clone without mentioning the revision that it seems to be done for: genode-master/base-nova/Makefile: GIT_URL = git://github.com/IntelLabs/NOVA.git GIT_REV = 16dd65c15dac298dc5b36d636d79fa0110bd5736 ... $(CONTRIB_DIR)/.git: $(VERBOSE)git clone $(GIT_URL) $(CONTRIB_DIR) which seems to ignore GIT_REV First, I tried to make run/hello without the make prepare in base-nova, but I did after, and it finished building, so I did not rebuild. First time I run/demo I hit a problem when clicking on liquid_framebuffer, that do not seems to repeat the next time: [init -> timer] Timer::Timeout_scheduler::Timeout_scheduler(Platform_timer*, Genode::Rpc_entrypoint*): starting timeout scheduler [init -> vesa_drv] int Framebuffer_drv::map_io_mem(Genode::addr_t, Genode::size_t, bool, void**, Genode::addr_t, Genode::Dataspace_capability*): fb mapped to 1000 [init -> vesa_drv] Could not open file "config" [init -> vesa_drv] Could not obtain config file [init -> vesa_drv] Found: VESA BIOS version 2.0 [init -> vesa_drv] OEM: VGABIOS Cirrus extension [init -> vesa_drv] Found: physical frame buffer at 0xfc000000 size: 0x00400000 [init -> vesa_drv] int Framebuffer_drv::map_io_mem(Genode::addr_t, Genode::size_t, bool, void**, Genode::addr_t, Genode::Dataspace_capability*): fb mapped to 400000 [init -> nitpicker] framebuffer is 1024x768@...23... [init -> nitpicker] create session with args: fb_format=1, label="launchpad", ram_quota=1646592 [init -> nitpicker] Could not open file "config" [init -> nitpicker] Could not obtain config file [init -> nitpicker] create session with args: fb_width=400, fb_height=1504, fb_format=1, label="launchpad", ram_quota=1211392 [init -> launchpad] --- entering main loop --- [init -> launchpad] starting liquid_fb with quota 7340032 [init -> launchpad] using unique child name "liquid_fb" [init -> launchpad -> liquid_fb] Could not open file "config" [init -> launchpad -> liquid_fb] Could not obtain config file [init -> nitpicker] create session with args: fb_format=1, label="launchpad -> liquid_fb", ram_quota=1646592 [init -> nitpicker] create session with args: fb_width=510, fb_height=880, fb_format=1, label="launchpad -> liquid_fb", ram_quota=905792 [init -> launchpad] liquid_fb registered service Framebuffer [init -> launchpad] liquid_fb registered service Input virtual void Genode::Signal_session_component::submit(Genode::Signal_context_capability, unsigned int): invalid signal-context capability unresolvable page-fault at address 0xa00fdfc0, ip=0x1010128 [ 0] Killed EC:0xffffffff810a02e0 SC:0xffffffff823ccba0 V:0xe CS:0x2b EIP:0x1010128 CR2:0xa00fdfc0 ERR:0x6 (PT not found) Although id does run (moving background), the cursor stop. But I was able to get back control from Qemu with Ctrl-Alt. The next time I did run/demo, the liquid_fb worked (cursor and all works), but there is an error: See the line with [init -> launchpad -> liquid_fb] tried to call an invalid object: [init -> launchpad] Could not open file "ld.lib.so" [init -> ps2_drv] Using keyboard with scan code set 1 (xlate). [init -> launchpad] Could not open file "config" [init -> launchpad] Could not obtain config file [init -> timer] Timer::Timeout_scheduler::Timeout_scheduler(Platform_timer*, Genode::Rpc_entrypoint*): starting timeout scheduler [init -> vesa_drv] int Framebuffer_drv::map_io_mem(Genode::addr_t, Genode::size_t, bool, void**, Genode::addr_t, Genode::Dataspace_capability*): fb mapped to 1000 [init -> vesa_drv] Could not open file "config" [init -> vesa_drv] Could not obtain config file [init -> vesa_drv] Found: VESA BIOS version 2.0 [init -> vesa_drv] OEM: VGABIOS Cirrus extension [init -> vesa_drv] Found: physical frame buffer at 0xfc000000 size: 0x00400000 [init -> vesa_drv] int Framebuffer_drv::map_io_mem(Genode::addr_t, Genode::size_t, bool, void**, Genode::addr_t, Genode::Dataspace_capability*): fb mapped to 400000 [init -> nitpicker] framebuffer is 1024x768@...23... [init -> nitpicker] create session with args: fb_format=1, label="launchpad", ram_quota=1646592 [init -> nitpicker] Could not open file "config" [init -> nitpicker] Could not obtain config file [init -> nitpicker] create session with args: fb_width=400, fb_height=1504, fb_format=1, label="launchpad", ram_quota=1211392 [init -> launchpad] --- entering main loop --- [init -> launchpad] starting liquid_fb with quota 7340032 [init -> launchpad] using unique child name "liquid_fb" [init -> launchpad -> liquid_fb] Could not open file "config" [init -> launchpad -> liquid_fb] Could not obtain config file [init -> nitpicker] create session with args: fb_format=1, label="launchpad -> liquid_fb", ram_quota=1646592 [init -> nitpicker] create session with args: fb_width=510, fb_height=880, fb_format=1, label="launchpad -> liquid_fb", ram_quota=905792 [init -> launchpad] liquid_fb registered service Framebuffer [init -> launchpad] liquid_fb registered service Input [init -> launchpad -> liquid_fb] tried to call an invalid object [init -> launchpad -> liquid_fb] C++ runtime: Genode::Ipc_error [init -> launchpad -> liquid_fb] void* abort(): abort called unmapping of managed dataspaces not yet supported [init -> launchpad] starting liquid_fb with quota 7340032 [init -> launchpad] using unique child name "liquid_fb" [init -> launchpad -> liquid_fb] Could not open file "config" [init -> launchpad -> liquid_fb] Could not obtain config file [init -> nitpicker] create session with args: fb_format=1, label="launchpad -> liquid_fb", ram_quota=1646592 [init -> nitpicker] create session with args: fb_width=510, fb_height=880, fb_format=1, label="launchpad -> liquid_fb", ram_quota=905792 [init -> launchpad] liquid_fb registered service Framebuffer [init -> launchpad] liquid_fb registered service Input qemu: terminating on signal 2 I intend to test the iso on my machine on a CD or DVD.

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[memory issue] i see a issue when i build demo with linux_x86 mode.
by 김은석 18 Jan '13

18 Jan '13

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make -C build.nova-x86_64 run/demo results in -no-kvm option
by J T 18 Jan '13

18 Jan '13

While trying out different parts of the genode build tree I tried doing a make -C build.nova-x86_64 run/demo which resulted in something like this: ... genode build completed using NOVA kernel at /home/xx/src/genode/build.nova-x86_64/kernel/hypervisor creating ISO image... spawn qemu-system-x86_64 -no-kvm -cpu core2duo -m 256 -serial mon:stdio -cdrom var/run/demo.iso qemu-system-x86_64: -no-kvm: invalid option ... I'm currently running centos 6 as a remote server and doing the builds there and initially I didn't have qemu-system available on it. It took me a while to locate an rpm (in rpmforge-extras) that had qemu-system_x86_64 - however it does not recognise the -no-kvm command line option. In fact I'm having trouble locating any documentation for QEMU that mentions that command line option so I'm wondering whether the option is bogus or I need to be looking elsewhere to get a qemu install that has the command with that argument.

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RFR: Ubuntu Server Dev Environment Possible/Preferred for Genode ?
by J T 18 Jan '13

18 Jan '13

Hi, Currently I've been trying to use a Centos VM I have running remotely on a Xen host as a Genode build environment. Is it really better for me to switch to using Ubuntu ? If so, since I really dislike using Linux in its desktop GUI flavours and would prefer not to run it locally as a VM either .. I'm wondering if anyone has had any luck running a server version of Ubuntu that can be accessed remotely using a local X11 server (on my Mac for example). Thanks, Kt.

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make run/demo on a linux base on a 64 bit centos distro - SYS_waitpid not declared
by J T 18 Jan '13

18 Jan '13

$ make run/demo ... Program core/core COMPILE cpu_session_extension.o In file included from /home/xx/source/genode/base-linux/src/core/cpu_session_extension.cc:11:0: /home/xx/source/genode/base-linux/src/core/include/core_linux_syscalls.h: In function ‘int lx_pollpid()’: /home/xx/source/genode/base-linux/src/core/include/core_linux_syscalls.h:115:20: error: ‘SYS_waitpid’ was not declared in this scope make[2]: *** [cpu_session_extension.o] Error 1 make[1]: *** [core.prg] Error 2 make: *** [gen_deps_and_build_targets] Error 2 Prior to this I had to run tool/toolchain since the other method for using genode's custom precompiled toolchain didnt work for me.

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Re: HelenOS kernel (Spartan) as a Genode platform
by Tobias Börtitz 16 Jan '13

16 Jan '13

Hi Paul, thank you for the comments. I will have a look at the issue trackers during the next days after talking to the corresponding people. Even updating the documentation an helenos's wiki may be a good idea at some point. John, you may be misslead by the term "platform". The Genode framework is a userland implementation of a capabilty based OS, which is capable of running on top of different microkernels. The term "platform" in this case refers to the used microkernel the framework is running on. In my case I strip HelenOS of its userland and only use their microkernel (which is called SPARTAN). So I port the Genode famwork to be able to run on top of the new platform HelenOS/SPARTAN. I do hope this clarifies things for you. If not, please let me know. Regards, Tobias

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HelenOS kernel (Spartan) as a Genode platform
by Paul Dufresne 16 Jan '13

16 Jan '13

I believed that an HelenOS GoogleSummerOfCode (GSOC) project for 2012 was: https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/project/google/gsoc2012/kurbel/20001 http://trac.helenos.org/ticket/419 Basically no GSOC 2012 projects was accepted for Genode, but it was for the HelenOS. So Tobias Börtitz did work on that during summer of 2012. Now, after reading his last report ( http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.os.helenos.devel/740 ) I understand his work was incomplete. (Seen a bit other comments by searching "HelenOS as a Genode platform" on Google ) I suppose he did not continue the project after the GSOC 2012. Does his branch (work) is publicly available and if so where? I took a look to: https://github.com/genodelabs/genode/network but I don't seems to find it there. I don't really expect to continue his work, but before discovering Genode, I was reading quite a bit about HelenOS and I'd like to be able to peek at this work.

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Genode 12.11 on Ubuntu 64 bits: Could not open file "ld.lib.so" seems to cause black window
by Paul Dufresne 16 Jan '13

16 Jan '13

First, I did not search yet for issues showing this. It is just a ... "hey, that's seems wrong, anyone knows about this?". After my "make run/demo" on Linux Ubuntu 64 bits, I got a big black window, that was empty so I closed it. The log after compilation shows: Program app/launchpad/launchpad COMPILE launcher.o COMPILE launchpad_window.o COMPILE main.o LINK launchpad make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/paul/Bureau/Genode/genode-12.11/build.lx' genode build completed spawn ./core int main(): --- create local services --- int main(): --- start init --- int main(): transferred 79 MB to init int main(): --- init created, waiting for exit condition --- [init] Could not open file "ld.lib.so" [init -> launchpad] Could not open file "ld.lib.so" [init -> launchpad] Could not open file "config" [init -> launchpad] Could not obtain config file ^Cint main(): --- destroying init --- virtual void Genode::Core_parent::close(Genode::Session_capability): implement me, please destroy_server_socket_pair called for IPC server which should never happen context area detach from 0x2fe000 - not implemented int main(): --- core main says good bye --- virtual void Genode::Core_parent::close(Genode::Session_capability): implement me, please virtual void Genode::Core_parent::close(Genode::Session_capability): implement me, please expect: spawn id exp6 not open while executing "expect { -re $wait_for_re { } timeout { puts stderr "Error: Test execution timed out"; exit -2 } }" (procedure "run_genode_until" line 8) invoked from within "run_genode_until forever" (file "/home/paul/Bureau/Genode/genode-12.11/os/run/demo.run" line 129) invoked from within "source $include_name" ("foreach" body line 3) invoked from within "foreach include_name [get_cmd_arg --include ""] { puts "using run script $include_name" source $include_name }" (file "/home/paul/Bureau/Genode/genode-12.11/tool/run" line 508) make: *** [run/demo] Error 1 paul@...162...:~/Bureau/Genode/genode-12.11/build.lx$ paul@...162...:~/Bureau/Genode/genode-12.11/build.lx$ locate ld.lib paul@...162...:~/Bureau/Genode/genode-12.11/build.lx$

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Re: OM: A real-world, tangible, desktop implementation of Genode
by unknown＠example.com 15 Jan '13

15 Jan '13

I'm looking to implement an 'auii' on the genode platform. I'll be putting out the 'auii' spec along with (within really) an xml based model/prototype, hopefully this first quarter 2013 (this year) at iintera.org. It addresses rather completely the 'user interaction thng', including various use levels. If anyone's interested in participating let me know. I might accelerate the spec/proto/model release accordingly. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Bessa > Sent: 01/14/13 03:07 PM > To: Genode OS Framework Mailing List > Subject: Re: OM: A real-world, tangible, desktop implementation of Genode > > Hello Norman, > > My break-down of your writing is that the biggest challenge for the > user-model is to structure a > > 1) user-relationship via the > 2) desktop to a > 3) chain of interacting components with regard to data > 4) persistence and > 5) access > > I describe this "chain of interaction" as "complexity," but complex data is > usually described as "dictionaries" --showing low comprehension of it. > Shell, in particular "comprehended" complexity so effectively with its > file-objects that I think we fell into a homeostasis while we should have > been extending it to create its own objects. Thus, we would have > currently-valid interaction with the OS. An OO shell extension might > include the "arrow" operator to define, or link, interaction between > desktop objects. > > I am attempting to create a summary of L4/Genode material including Drops > and its OS kit components, the driver synthesis concept, and your > alternative microkernels (such as Xen) to create SVG charting material. I > have seen Lua used in L4 boot, so that should go in the summary as well. > > Preserving the GNU/Unix gcc structure makes sense through "eating your own > dog food" it provides an easy entry point for younger free/software > programmers. Because these young programmers probably > have limited resources, the computer running Genode (such as a flashed > Android device) might be their only one, so allowing them to use this > device for development reinforces "eating your own," well, vegetables. As > an early administrator, I recall that Shell's and GNU's simplicity as its > asset allowing for easy inquiry into efficiency, practicality (usability), > and security. It was easy to make a good living when Shell was king from > 1990-2000. > > Regards, John >

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