Dear Fellow Genodians-
Is a Lenovo Thinkpad x201 is still the best hardware platform for syncing up with other's who are working with Turmvilla https://github.com/genodelabs/genode/issues/1552 ? or is there something more modern that leading edge Genodians are working hard to make into there prefured day to day use Genode platform ?
In the longer run... I am intrested in running the Gneode OS on Snickerdoodle http://makezine.com/2015/10/12/snickerdoodle-dev-board-fpga-arm-processor/ (Dual Core ARM_A9 as well as the Mips Creator Ci40 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/20/imagination_technologies_creator_ci40/ .. It would be great if we might be able to deliver Genode to run on these boards via the Snappy package update manager http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/more-stable-future-ubuntu....
any thoughts on this? am I dreaming in the right direction?
-Peter
Hello Peter,
Is a Lenovo Thinkpad x201 is still the best hardware platform forsyncing up with other's who are working with Turmvilla https://github.com/genodelabs/genode/issues/1552 ? or is there something more modern that leading edge Genodians are working hard to make into there prefured day to day use Genode platform ?
I'd still recommend the x201 because this is what I am using. Anyway, we started using other machines as well. I.e., the x250 is a good choice. We just started to regularly test Genode on this hardware. When purchasing, please make sure that the machine has AMT (for serial-over-network support). Otherwise, you may not be able to obtain low-level LOG data for troubleshooting.
In the longer run... I am intrested in running the Gneode OS onSnickerdoodle http://makezine.com/2015/10/12/snickerdoodle-dev-board-fpga-arm-processor/ (Dual Core ARM_A9 as well as the Mips Creator Ci40 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/20/imagination_technologies_creator_ci40/ .. It would be great if we might be able to deliver Genode to run on these boards via the Snappy package update manager http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/more-stable-future-ubuntu....
any thoughts on this? am I dreaming in the right direction?
With regard to package management, Emery is actively developing the use of the Nix package manager on top of Genode. Even though this line of work is at an experimental stage, I find the prospects for our project very exciting:
https://github.com/genodelabs/genode/issues/1082#issuecomment-142920055
Cheers Norman
On Mon, Nov 09, 2015 at 09:04:47AM +0100, Norman Feske wrote:
I'd still recommend the x201 because this is what I am using. Anyway, we started using other machines as well. I.e., the x250 is a good choice. We just started to regularly test Genode on this hardware. When purchasing, please make sure that the machine has AMT (for serial-over-network support). Otherwise, you may not be able to obtain low-level LOG data for troubleshooting.
Perhaps it'd be worth implementing an EHCI driver of sorts for logging? Relying on nonfree software to do serial logging is problematic. Testing with Libreboot would be good (and something I intend to do sometime.)
With regard to package management, Emery is actively developing the use of the Nix package manager on top of Genode. Even though this line of work is at an experimental stage, I find the prospects for our project very exciting:
I spent a little bit of time trying to get it to work on my build of Genode but still hit errors - unfortunately given its (unintentionally?) nonfree nature there wasn't much more I could do and I felt uneasy about putting time in to fixing it. Perhaps when that's fixed the community could get involved a bit more?
Cheers Norman
On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 12:34 AM, Jookia <166291@...9...> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 09, 2015 at 09:04:47AM +0100, Norman Feske wrote:
... please make sure that the machine has AMT (for serial-over-network support). Otherwise, you may not be able to obtain low-level LOG data for troubleshooting.
Perhaps it'd be worth implementing an EHCI driver of sorts for logging?
Support for USB debug adapters would be great, and doesn't require fully configuring the USB host.
With regard to package management, Emery is actively developing the use of the Nix package manager on top of Genode.
I spent a little bit of time trying to get it to work on my build of Genode but still hit errors - unfortunately given its (unintentionally?) nonfree nature there wasn't much more I could do and I felt uneasy about putting time in to fixing it. Perhaps when that's fixed the community could get involved a bit more?
What's non-free there? Nix is LGPLv2 licensed, right?
(I am super excited to learn that someone's working on Nix for Genode; I think that'll make development a lot easier once it works.)
Jamey
On Mon, Nov 09, 2015 at 11:10:06AM -0800, Jamey Sharp wrote:
Support for USB debug adapters would be great, and doesn't require fully configuring the USB host.
If you have a device that supports USB OTG like a Beagleboard you can use Linux's USB gadget support and get an EHCI debugger that way too.
What's non-free there? Nix is LGPLv2 licensed, right?
Nix is free, but from what I can tell the genode-nix code isn't licensed, so it's all rights reserved (or the github license if you want to be technical) - definitely not free.
(I am super excited to learn that someone's working on Nix for Genode; I think that'll make development a lot easier once it works.)
Me too! It's one of the reasons I'm getting in to NixOS at the moment.
Jamey
I would definitely like USB debugging, since I got a Dell Latitude laptop which should be fairly compatible with Genode. It theoretically has AMT support, but I have been unable to enable it. On Nov 9, 2015 3:06 PM, "Jookia" <166291@...9...> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 09, 2015 at 11:10:06AM -0800, Jamey Sharp wrote:
Support for USB debug adapters would be great, and doesn't require fully configuring the USB host.
If you have a device that supports USB OTG like a Beagleboard you can use Linux's USB gadget support and get an EHCI debugger that way too.
What's non-free there? Nix is LGPLv2 licensed, right?
Nix is free, but from what I can tell the genode-nix code isn't licensed, so it's all rights reserved (or the github license if you want to be technical) - definitely not free.
(I am super excited to learn that someone's working on Nix for Genode; I think that'll make development a lot easier once it works.)
Me too! It's one of the reasons I'm getting in to NixOS at the moment.
Jamey
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Hello Jamey,
On Mon, Nov 09, 2015 at 11:10:06AM -0800, Jamey Sharp wrote:
Support for USB debug adapters would be great, and doesn't require fully configuring the USB host.
Do you have experience with USB debugging? Are you refering to those EHCI debug port and appropriate dongle cables? Fellow developers are not that confident it is worth investigating from their past experiences, especially from the background of most debug ports not actually wired to connectors. But if you have tips, I'd like to have a look as we have two debug dongles in the labs.
Regards
I used the Linux early printk support for USB debug adapters several years ago, and found it quite helpful on whatever machines I was testing on at the time.
But I also thought that the EHCI spec required at least one port to support debug, which I recently learned is not true. So I have no idea how widely supported that feature is on current hardware.
If someone is willing to take the time to implement it, though, I think USB debug nicely complements the other console interfaces Genode already supports, and is worth doing for that reason.
The only Linux console interface that would be nicer, in my opinion, is netconsole, and that's a pain both to implement and to configure.
Jamey On Nov 9, 2015 11:43 PM, "Christian Helmuth" < christian.helmuth@...1...> wrote:
Hello Jamey,
On Mon, Nov 09, 2015 at 11:10:06AM -0800, Jamey Sharp wrote:
Support for USB debug adapters would be great, and doesn't require fully configuring the USB host.
Do you have experience with USB debugging? Are you refering to those EHCI debug port and appropriate dongle cables? Fellow developers are not that confident it is worth investigating from their past experiences, especially from the background of most debug ports not actually wired to connectors. But if you have tips, I'd like to have a look as we have two debug dongles in the labs.
Regards
Christian Helmuth Genode Labs
http://www.genode-labs.com/ · http://genode.org/ https://twitter.com/GenodeLabs · /ˈdʒiː.nəʊd/
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On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 09:05:05AM +1100, Jookia wrote:
What's non-free there? Nix is LGPLv2 licensed, right?
Nix is free, but from what I can tell the genode-nix code isn't licensed, so it's all rights reserved (or the github license if you want to be technical) - definitely not free.
I didn't notice that Nix was LGPL until just now. There is a lot of code for evaulating the langauge that will have to stay that way for now, but everything I'm doing is GPLv2, if I didn't mark something as such it because I forgot.
Sorry I don't have any example scenarios right now, I'm getting ready for nixcon this weekend, and after that I can consolidate my high-level nix expressions.
greater
On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 12:24:17AM -0800, Jamey Sharp wrote:
But I also thought that the EHCI spec required at least one port to support debug, which I recently learned is not true. So I have no idea how widely supported that feature is on current hardware.
It seems all the machines I own have it, though most the machines I have are from pre-2010. Perhaps the question is 'is it more supported than AMT'?
Jamey
On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 11:05:40AM +0100, Emery wrote:
I didn't notice that Nix was LGPL until just now. There is a lot of code for evaulating the langauge that will have to stay that way for now, but everything I'm doing is GPLv2, if I didn't mark something as such it because I forgot.
Ah, well when you have time (I understand you're busy) it'd be great if you added license headers to each file (perhaps similiar to Genode) specifying that it's GPLv2. It would also be great if you specify GPLv2 or later, or just LGPLv2.1 since it has the ability to join with code under the GPLv3.
I understand a lot of people like the GPLv2 as a single license (and Genode and Linux are examples of choosing just that license), but it's always good to be able to upgrade without getting permission from all developers.
Sorry I don't have any example scenarios right now, I'm getting ready for nixcon this weekend, and after that I can consolidate my high-level nix expressions.
greater
Jookia.
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Christian Helmuth -
Emery -
Jamey Sharp -
Jookia -
Nobody III -
Norman Feske -
Peter Lindener