I recently got a used ThinkPad just for genode. Over the holiday break, I managed to follow Schlatow's article[1] far enough to get dual boot working, but I'm struggling with vbox6. I think I need to get a better working knowledge of VirtualBox before I try it on genode again. [1] https://genodians.org/jschlatow/2021-04-23-start-existing-linux-from-sculpt
Before I forgot it all, I wrote myself some notes[2]. Then I added some context for a wider audience in preparation for a possible "show and tell" for my colleagues at Agoric.com:
Toward capabilities all the way down with Genode on a Thinkpad [2] https://www.madmode.com/2023/genode-thinkpad-dual-boot.html
I'd appreciate any feedback on the item.
One thing I discovered while tinkering was a "Taking a look at Genode/Sculpt (21.03b)" video on YouTube: [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PpIf6n4AV4
I don't normally use videos to learn stuff, but I'm starting to realize that it's because the gaps in my knowledge that I'm trying to fill are typically small enough that when I find a short article on the topic, I have the relevant background assumed in the article. But when I first started playing with Genode, I had a LOT to catch up on. That's why I was hoping for a screencast [4] https://github.com/genodelabs/genode/issues/1000#issuecomment-161410556
The particular YouTube video above[3] only covers material that I'm already familiar with.
But if anyone could point me at a screencast or video of setting up a virtual machine, I would very much appreciate it.
Again, I should probably study up on using VirtualBox in general. I'm sure there are plenty of videos about that. But I suppose it can't hurt to ask for one about vbox6 on genode :)
p.s. I meant to mention... at Agoric.com, we do a lot of work with JavaScript as an object-capabilities platform. I'm interested to run JavaScript on genode. I have made just a little bit of progress, using goa with the XS JavaScript engine:
https://github.com/dckc/genode-js-xs
The prospect of writing C bindings for each session interface that I want to use looks somewhat tedious, but I suppose it's not too bad.
Say... folks using Ada in genode need the same thing for FFI, yes? I should look into that...
p.p.s. I also do a certain amount of promoting genode in my awesome-ocap list. Genode is 1st in the OS section. https://github.com/dckc/awesome-ocap#os
On Sun, Jan 8, 2023 at 10:20 PM Dan Connolly dckc@madmode.com wrote:
I recently got a used ThinkPad just for genode. Over the holiday break, I managed to follow Schlatow's article[1] far enough to get dual boot working, but I'm struggling with vbox6. I think I need to get a better working knowledge of VirtualBox before I try it on genode again. [1] https://genodians.org/jschlatow/2021-04-23-start-existing-linux-from-sculpt
Before I forgot it all, I wrote myself some notes[2]. Then I added some context for a wider audience in preparation for a possible "show and tell" for my colleagues at Agoric.com:
Toward capabilities all the way down with Genode on a Thinkpad [2] https://www.madmode.com/2023/genode-thinkpad-dual-boot.html
I'd appreciate any feedback on the item.
One thing I discovered while tinkering was a "Taking a look at Genode/Sculpt (21.03b)" video on YouTube: [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PpIf6n4AV4
I don't normally use videos to learn stuff, but I'm starting to realize that it's because the gaps in my knowledge that I'm trying to fill are typically small enough that when I find a short article on the topic, I have the relevant background assumed in the article. But when I first started playing with Genode, I had a LOT to catch up on. That's why I was hoping for a screencast [4] https://github.com/genodelabs/genode/issues/1000#issuecomment-161410556
The particular YouTube video above[3] only covers material that I'm already familiar with.
But if anyone could point me at a screencast or video of setting up a virtual machine, I would very much appreciate it.
Again, I should probably study up on using VirtualBox in general. I'm sure there are plenty of videos about that. But I suppose it can't hurt to ask for one about vbox6 on genode :)
-- Dan Connolly http://www.madmode.com/
... if anyone could point me at a screencast or video of setting up a virtual machine, I would very much appreciate it.
aha! found one:
https://genodians.org/m-stein/2020-06-17-cbe-linux-vm-video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UDo7sf-14E
On 1/8/23 11:06 PM, Dan Connolly wrote:
... if anyone could point me at a screencast or video of setting up a virtual machine, I would very much appreciate it.
aha! found one:
https://genodians.org/m-stein/2020-06-17-cbe-linux-vm-video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UDo7sf-14E
Thanks for sharing the links and background in the thread.
I'm still trying to understand the relationship between Genode and Sculpt. Reading through the "Genode Live System" github issue thread, It sounds like back in 2016, the developers had no desire to build a live-cd version of the framework (it would have been a distraction and tons of work to do, for little perceived benefit), but by 2018, were able to see their way clear to put Sculpt OS out (which is way more than a live-cd demo of the framework, and is more akin to a proof of concept turned useful experimental operating system). Does that sound right?
Will
I'm still trying to understand the relationship between Genode and Sculpt. Reading through the "Genode Live System" github issue thread, It sounds like back in 2016, the developers had no desire to build a live-cd version of the framework (it would have been a distraction and tons of work to do, for little perceived benefit), but by 2018, were able to see their way clear to put Sculpt OS out (which is way more than a live-cd demo of the framework, and is more akin to a proof of concept turned useful experimental operating system). Does that sound right?
While waiting for Norman et al to chime in, I'd say yes. At least that's how I see it from the small handful of years I've followed the evolution.
Here's a (tangential ?) thought on the current conversation: (or, "how to answer a question nobody asked", lol)
SculptOS is targetted to a "power users" public, but it seems to me this is really not a mandatory consequence of using the Genode "lego bricks" to assemble an operating system : you can clearly assemble them to make an OS aimed at a more general public, who wants to use the terminal as little as possible, wants the OS configured "out of the box" etc. The way I understand it, the three OS projects (that I've seen mentionned here in the past) all seem to be doing so.
(hopefully this won't result in a situation where only SculptOS users, i.e. power users, benefit from the full security model provided by Genode, and users of the other three have lesser security, that would be a shame. At my end eventually I'll try to live up to the awesome foundation I'm building on, though I can't promise anything this "early" in the game)
Cedric
Hi Cedrik,
SculptOS is targetted to a "power users" public, but it seems to me this is really not a mandatory consequence of using the Genode "lego bricks" to assemble an operating system : you can clearly assemble them to make an OS aimed at a more general public, who wants to use the terminal as little as possible, wants the OS configured "out of the box" etc. The way I understand it, the three OS projects (that I've seen mentionned here in the past) all seem to be doing so.
I'm entirely with you. Sculpt is an example of what one can build out of Genode's building blocks, similar to how the fire department is an example of what one can build with Lego. The fact that the fire department is available as a kit that comes with nice build instructions does not mean that Lego can only be used in fire-fighting scenarios. It happens to be useful for ice-cream stands and pirate islands just as well.
(hopefully this won't result in a situation where only SculptOS users, i.e. power users, benefit from the full security model provided by Genode, and users of the other three have lesser security, that would be a shame. At my end eventually I'll try to live up to the awesome foundation I'm building on, though I can't promise anything this "early" in the game)
Sculpt OS certainly leverages Genode's security architecture in a very pronounced manner because it is meant as a showcase for the security benefits of Genode in the first place. E.g., the extremely fine granularity of sandboxing applied to the software-installation/update mechanism [1] shows how far one can go.
Whenever we implement functionality for Sculpt OS, we try hard to turn those mechanisms into generally useful components or subsystems. Should you ever happen to want to reuse Sculpt's installation mechanism for HoG, you can readily do so because the 'depot_download' and 'depot_deploy' subsystems are fairly free-standing features that can be used outside of Sculpt OS.
[1] https://genode.org/documentation/release-notes/18.02#Installation___update
Cheers Norman
On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 8:49 AM Norman Feske norman.feske@genode-labs.com wrote: ...
I'm entirely with you. Sculpt is an example of what one can build out of Genode's building blocks, similar to how the fire department is an example of what one can build with Lego. The fact that the fire department is available as a kit that comes with nice build instructions does not mean that Lego can only be used in fire-fighting scenarios. It happens to be useful for ice-cream stands and pirate islands just as well.
Ha!
That's way too good to let disappear into the email archives. You/we really should make some cartoons out of that and get them on the Genode web site :)
Hi Will,
On 1/9/23 07:20, Will Senn wrote:
I'm still trying to understand the relationship between Genode and Sculpt. Reading through the "Genode Live System" github issue thread, It sounds like back in 2016, the developers had no desire to build a live-cd version of the framework (it would have been a distraction and tons of work to do, for little perceived benefit), but by 2018, were able to see their way clear to put Sculpt OS out (which is way more than a live-cd demo of the framework, and is more akin to a proof of concept turned useful experimental operating system). Does that sound right?
I think so. Let me point you to a recent reddit thread [1] covering a very similar question, hoping to help lifting the clouds a bit further.
[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/genode/comments/yw5kjv/making_sense_of_genodesculpt...
Cheers Norman
Hi Dan,
On Sun, 8 Jan 2023 22:20:36 -0600 Dan Connolly dckc@madmode.com wrote:
I recently got a used ThinkPad just for genode. Over the holiday break, I managed to follow Schlatow's article[1] far enough to get dual boot working, but I'm struggling with vbox6. I think I need to get a better working knowledge of VirtualBox before I try it on genode again. [1] https://genodians.org/jschlatow/2021-04-23-start-existing-linux-from-sculpt
Before I forgot it all, I wrote myself some notes[2]. Then I added some context for a wider audience in preparation for a possible "show and tell" for my colleagues at Agoric.com:
Toward capabilities all the way down with Genode on a Thinkpad [2] https://www.madmode.com/2023/genode-thinkpad-dual-boot.html
I'd appreciate any feedback on the item.
Please note that my article is a bit outdated as it describes the use of vbox5 (not vbox6) to start an existing Linux installation from Sculpt. If you strictly followed the instructions, you probably ended up creating a machine.vbox file instead of a machine.vbox6 file. This could explain why vbox6 cannot find a machine.vbox6 file.
More up-to-date and beginner friendly instructions can be found in this article: https://genodians.org/jschlatow/2022-10-27-fresh-vm-on-sculpt
It describes how to install and boot a Linux VM on Sculpt. I suggest you first try to reproduce this in order to get familiar with the basics. Once you have a simple VM up and running you may revisit the dual boot scenario.
On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 4:41 AM Johannes Schlatow johannes.schlatow@genode-labs.com wrote:
... If you strictly followed the instructions, you probably ended up creating a machine.vbox file instead of a machine.vbox6 file. This could explain why vbox6 cannot find a machine.vbox6 file.
Ah. thanks. That does explain it.
More up-to-date and beginner friendly instructions can be found in this article: https://genodians.org/jschlatow/2022-10-27-fresh-vm-on-sculpt
Thanks! I think I made some progress using those instructions, but I ran into:
[runtime -> vm -> vbox] Error: VDIfTcpNetInstDefaultDestroy: VDIfTcpNetInstDefaultDestroy called, not implemented, eip=0x1802dfd
The full log is attached.
Any clues?
Hi Dan,
On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 14:21:08 -0600 Dan Connolly dckc@madmode.com wrote:
More up-to-date and beginner friendly instructions can be found in this article: https://genodians.org/jschlatow/2022-10-27-fresh-vm-on-sculpt
Thanks! I think I made some progress using those instructions, but I ran into:
[runtime -> vm -> vbox] Error: VDIfTcpNetInstDefaultDestroy: VDIfTcpNetInstDefaultDestroy called, not implemented, eip=0x1802dfd
The full log is attached.
Any clues?
I vaguely remember seeing an error like this. I believe it was some inconsistency or misconfiguration in the machine.vbox6 file.
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Dan Connolly -
Johannes Schlatow -
Norman Feske -
ttcoder＠netcourrier.com -
Will Senn