Hi, I've been searching back over previous mail postings on userland licensing for Genode, but haven't really found anything pertinent. Could someone possibly make a definitive comment on this - what is the license for any code sitting on top of Genode? If it's pure GPLv2 then I, for one, am stuck as I will have no control on what third parties will place on the application level. CheersNick
Hi Nick,
Could someone possibly make a definitive comment on this - what is the license for any code sitting on top of Genode?
If it's pure GPLv2 then I, for one, am stuck as I will have no control on what third parties will place on the application level.
Genode's regular license is GPLv2, which implies that "derivative work" inherits the license. So software based on Genode will be Free Software. This is by intention.
Note, however, that not all software that runs "on top" of Genode is "derivative work". For example, the 3rd-party software packages as found in the ports and libports repositories are hardly to be considered as such. So there is no single definite answer to your question.
That said, Genode Labs offers the option to commercially license Genode. If you think that GPLv2 prevents you from going forward with your plans, please get in touch via
licensing@...1...
Best regards Norman
Hi Norman, Thanks for the reply. I did some more looking around, read the GPL license, read wikipedia's overview etc. I guess the important bit that is illustrated in the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License), under 'Use of licensed software' is .... ....'software running as an application program under a GPL-licensed operating system such as Linux is not required to be licensed under GPL or to be distributed with source-code availability—the licensing depends only on the used libraries and software components and not on the underlying platform.[50] For example if a program consists only of own original custom software, or is combined with source code from other software components,[51]then the own custom software components need not be licensed under GPL and need not make their code available; even if the underlying operating system used is licensed under the GPL, applications running on it are not considered derivative works.'
So in our case, we don't have an issue with GPL. Phew! :) Best regards,Nick
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 15:42:47 +0100 From: norman.feske@...1... To: genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: Genode Userland Licensing
Hi Nick,
Could someone possibly make a definitive comment on this - what is the license for any code sitting on top of Genode?
If it's pure GPLv2 then I, for one, am stuck as I will have no control on what third parties will place on the application level.
Genode's regular license is GPLv2, which implies that "derivative work" inherits the license. So software based on Genode will be Free Software. This is by intention.
Note, however, that not all software that runs "on top" of Genode is "derivative work". For example, the 3rd-party software packages as found in the ports and libports repositories are hardly to be considered as such. So there is no single definite answer to your question.
That said, Genode Labs offers the option to commercially license Genode. If you think that GPLv2 prevents you from going forward with your plans, please get in touch via
licensing@...1...
Best regards Norman
-- Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske Genode Labs
http://www.genode-labs.com · http://genode.org
Genode Labs GmbH · Amtsgericht Dresden · HRB 28424 · Sitz Dresden Geschäftsführer: Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske, Christian Helmuth
WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key security issues and trends. Skip the complicated setup - simply import a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=123612991&iu=/4140/ostg.cl... _______________________________________________ Genode-main mailing list Genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/genode-main
Hi Nick,
then the own custom software components need not be licensed under GPL and need not make their code available; even if the underlying operating system used is licensed under the GPL, applications running on it are not considered derivative works.'
So in our case, we don't have an issue with GPL. Phew! :)
Your conclusion does actually not apply to Genode. The Linux kernel has an explicit clause at the top of its COPYING file that exempts user-level programs on top of Linux from being considered "derived work":
https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/COPYING...
Genode has no such exemption clause. Such a clause would actually not make much sense because in Genode, most traditional in-kernel functionalities are separate programs. If we defined a license boundary around each program (as the Linux kernel does), this would correspond to defining a license boundary around each Linux kernel module. This would obviously undermine the spirit of the GPL.
The Genode framework is, for the most part, a collection of libraries, against which programs are linked when running on the platform. Because those libraries and interfaces are GPL software, programs using those libraries have to comply with the terms of the GPL. Put simply: Genode is Free Software. Software that is based on Genode should be Free Software, too.
If you intend to facilitate Genode to build a non-free software stack, commercial licensing should be investigated. This way, proprietary software built on top of Genode helps indirectly to bring Free Software forward by funding its development.
Best regards Norman
Hi Norman, Please ignore the last post. Getting very fed up with Hotmail. I trashed the mail halfway through writing it and it was still sent! Moving this in a slightly different direction. If a lgpl, application stack library, compatible with Genode, was packaged with a Genode bundle, then I assume that this would be ok without the need for any licensing? I'm just trying to establish licensing use-cases for Genode. Best regards,Nick
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 20:37:25 +0100 From: norman.feske@...1... To: genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: Genode Userland Licensing
Hi Nick,
then the own custom software components need not be licensed under GPL and need not make their code available; even if the underlying operating system used is licensed under the GPL, applications running on it are not considered derivative works.'
So in our case, we don't have an issue with GPL. Phew! :)
Your conclusion does actually not apply to Genode. The Linux kernel has an explicit clause at the top of its COPYING file that exempts user-level programs on top of Linux from being considered "derived work":
https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/COPYING...
Genode has no such exemption clause. Such a clause would actually not make much sense because in Genode, most traditional in-kernel functionalities are separate programs. If we defined a license boundary around each program (as the Linux kernel does), this would correspond to defining a license boundary around each Linux kernel module. This would obviously undermine the spirit of the GPL.
The Genode framework is, for the most part, a collection of libraries, against which programs are linked when running on the platform. Because those libraries and interfaces are GPL software, programs using those libraries have to comply with the terms of the GPL. Put simply: Genode is Free Software. Software that is based on Genode should be Free Software, too.
If you intend to facilitate Genode to build a non-free software stack, commercial licensing should be investigated. This way, proprietary software built on top of Genode helps indirectly to bring Free Software forward by funding its development.
Best regards Norman
-- Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske Genode Labs
http://www.genode-labs.com · http://genode.org
Genode Labs GmbH · Amtsgericht Dresden · HRB 28424 · Sitz Dresden Geschäftsführer: Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske, Christian Helmuth
WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key security issues and trends. Skip the complicated setup - simply import a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=123612991&iu=/4140/ostg.cl... _______________________________________________ Genode-main mailing list Genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/genode-main
Hi Nick,
Moving this in a slightly different direction. If a lgpl, application stack library, compatible with Genode, was packaged with a Genode bundle, then I assume that this would be ok without the need for any licensing?
Publishing a library compatible with Genode is perfectly fine regardless of the license you pick for the library. It is your code after all. Genode Labs is actually doing this for some pieces of code. For example, we maintain the qoost library (C++ utilities for Qt development) separate from Genode. This library uses the BSD license:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/qoost/
We simply make qoost available within Genode via the libports repository. The license of Genode does not affect the qoost library at all.
It goes without saying that you are free to distribute the source code of Genode as you see fit (aka "bundle"). That is granted by the GPL.
The restrictions of the GPL come into effect when you distribute a binary with Genode as an ingredient. In this case you need to distribute the source codes of the other ingredients (including the code that you developed) under a Free-Software license along with the binary.
So it is ultimately the responsibility of the creators and distributors of binaries (not source codes) to make sure to comply with the licenses of all the parts the binaries are made out of. This way, the GPL ensures that the benefits of Free Software are guaranteed to be passed to the end user.
Best regards Norman
Hi Norman, Thanks for taking time to deal with this and clarifying various issues. Will press on with Genode and see where the journey takes us ;) Best regardsNick
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 11:05:23 +0100 From: norman.feske@...1... To: genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: Genode Userland Licensing
Hi Nick,
Moving this in a slightly different direction. If a lgpl, application stack library, compatible with Genode, was packaged with a Genode bundle, then I assume that this would be ok without the need for any licensing?
Publishing a library compatible with Genode is perfectly fine regardless of the license you pick for the library. It is your code after all. Genode Labs is actually doing this for some pieces of code. For example, we maintain the qoost library (C++ utilities for Qt development) separate from Genode. This library uses the BSD license:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/qoost/
We simply make qoost available within Genode via the libports repository. The license of Genode does not affect the qoost library at all.
It goes without saying that you are free to distribute the source code of Genode as you see fit (aka "bundle"). That is granted by the GPL.
The restrictions of the GPL come into effect when you distribute a binary with Genode as an ingredient. In this case you need to distribute the source codes of the other ingredients (including the code that you developed) under a Free-Software license along with the binary.
So it is ultimately the responsibility of the creators and distributors of binaries (not source codes) to make sure to comply with the licenses of all the parts the binaries are made out of. This way, the GPL ensures that the benefits of Free Software are guaranteed to be passed to the end user.
Best regards Norman
-- Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske Genode Labs
http://www.genode-labs.com · http://genode.org
Genode Labs GmbH · Amtsgericht Dresden · HRB 28424 · Sitz Dresden Geschäftsführer: Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske, Christian Helmuth
WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key security issues and trends. Skip the complicated setup - simply import a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=123612991&iu=/4140/ostg.cl... _______________________________________________ Genode-main mailing list Genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/genode-main
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buzz heavyyear -
Norman Feske