Just now, we released a fresh version of Genode, which focuses on storage and virtualization. With this release, we bring block-device access and file-system support on the next level paving the way to use Genode as general-purpose OS. The port of VirtualBox adds support for a wide range of guest OSes (including MS Windows) to the long history of virtualization on Genode. The main features and improvements of the current release are:
- VirtualBox running on the NOVA microhypervisor - Base framework - Improved stack management - Storage - NetBSD file systems ported via rump kernels - Revised block-driver framework - New block cache - New FUSE-based NTFS-3g support - Ported e2fsprogs to the Noux runtime - Low-level OS infrastructure - New pseudo file system as tracing front end - Unified interfaces for graphics - New status-reporting mechanism - Nitpicker support for dynamic screen resizing - Libraries and applications - Extended Noux runtime with POSIX signals - Dynamic ROM service - Platforms - Basic support ODROID XU
More details about version 14.02 can be found in the release documentation here
http://genode.org/documentation/release-notes/14.02
Happy hacking with Genode
Greetings All,
This is wonderful news about the latest Genode 14.02 with all of these great improvements.
I saw the sources out at sourceforge, but was also wondering if there was a livecd or democd available so that I could explore some of these new things before having to go through the build process?
Kind Regards and have a great day, Lonnie
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On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 AM, Christian Helmuth < christian.helmuth@...1...> wrote:
Just now, we released a fresh version of Genode, which focuses on storage and virtualization. With this release, we bring block-device access and file-system support on the next level paving the way to use Genode as general-purpose OS. The port of VirtualBox adds support for a wide range of guest OSes (including MS Windows) to the long history of virtualization on Genode. The main features and improvements of the current release are:
- VirtualBox running on the NOVA microhypervisor
- Base framework
- Improved stack management
- Storage
- NetBSD file systems ported via rump kernels
- Revised block-driver framework
- New block cache
- New FUSE-based NTFS-3g support
- Ported e2fsprogs to the Noux runtime
- Low-level OS infrastructure
- New pseudo file system as tracing front end
- Unified interfaces for graphics
- New status-reporting mechanism
- Nitpicker support for dynamic screen resizing
- Libraries and applications
- Extended Noux runtime with POSIX signals
- Dynamic ROM service
- Platforms
- Basic support ODROID XU
More details about version 14.02 can be found in the release documentation here
http://genode.org/documentation/release-notes/14.02
Happy hacking with Genode
Christian Helmuth Genode Labs
http://www.genode-labs.com/ · http://genode.org/ https://twitter.com/GenodeLabs · /ˈdʒiː.nəʊd/
Genode Labs GmbH · Amtsgericht Dresden · HRB 28424 · Sitz Dresden Geschäftsführer: Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske, Christian Helmuth
Flow-based real-time traffic analytics software. Cisco certified tool. Monitor traffic, SLAs, QoS, Medianet, WAAS etc. with NetFlow Analyzer Customize your own dashboards, set traffic alerts and generate reports. Network behavioral analysis & security monitoring. All-in-one tool.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=126839071&iu=/4140/ostg.cl... _______________________________________________ Genode-main mailing list Genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/genode-main
Thanks Lonnie for your feedback!
This is wonderful news about the latest Genode 14.02 with all of these great improvements.
I saw the sources out at sourceforge, but was also wondering if there was a livecd or democd available so that I could explore some of these new things before having to go through the build process?
there is no live CD unfortunately. Most parts of the release are not end-user-facing features but rather geared towards developers who build systems with Genode. The best way to explore them is to try out the various new run scripts cited in the release documentation, and to start tinkering. :-)
Regarding the live system, there exists a topic at our issue tracker:
https://github.com/genodelabs/genode/issues/1000
We are actively working on the various outstanding issues brought up in the discussion but are hesitant to release a live system to a wider audience with the remaining open points unresolved.
Best regards Norman
Hi Norman,
Thanks for the quick reply and for the link to the LiveCD discussion.
I can see that once there is a LiveCD out to show the new feature like Virtualbox then that will definitely promote more popularity as most people like to see things in action before diving into the code. I have found that people like this a lot as it gives them a chance to imagine how the LiveCD features and aspects could possibly fit into their own projects and goals.
I looked at the live system link that you provided and am eagerly looking forward to seeing that system in operation.
If I also might make a suggestion that I think would help, then I would like to suggest that you also publish a "howto" on building the LiveCD (live system once it is ready) from the sources in a step-by-step approach as most folks that are interested in something new first want to see a LiveCD and then most of them are interested in being able to very easily replicate the building of the LiveCD, for example, as a first step towards their own systems and/or enhancements.
I have noticed that if folks cannot get through these steps easily then their interest seems to waver to other projects that they can demonstrate this, and I think that the reason is because the first steps are exploratory for them which gives them a indication as to how difficult a system might be to work with.
Even if the code easily compiles from sources, but there is no LiveCD (live system to explore) then the general inference is that "it" is to hard to work with and people tend to move on.
Just my opinion, but if Genode wants to become a general OS then the psychological aspects will definitely come into play as a major factor in the growth and popularity of a system.
As for mysef, I look forward to seeing the Live System when it is ready.
Kind Regards and have a great day, Lonnie
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Norman Feske <norman.feske@...1...>wrote:
Thanks Lonnie for your feedback!
This is wonderful news about the latest Genode 14.02 with all of these great improvements.
I saw the sources out at sourceforge, but was also wondering if there was a livecd or democd available so that I could explore some of these new things before having to go through the build process?
there is no live CD unfortunately. Most parts of the release are not end-user-facing features but rather geared towards developers who build systems with Genode. The best way to explore them is to try out the various new run scripts cited in the release documentation, and to start tinkering. :-)
Regarding the live system, there exists a topic at our issue tracker:
https://github.com/genodelabs/genode/issues/1000
We are actively working on the various outstanding issues brought up in the discussion but are hesitant to release a live system to a wider audience with the remaining open points unresolved.
Best regards Norman
-- Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske Genode Labs
http://www.genode-labs.com · http://genode.org
Genode Labs GmbH · Amtsgericht Dresden · HRB 28424 · Sitz Dresden Geschäftsführer: Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske, Christian Helmuth
Flow-based real-time traffic analytics software. Cisco certified tool. Monitor traffic, SLAs, QoS, Medianet, WAAS etc. with NetFlow Analyzer Customize your own dashboards, set traffic alerts and generate reports. Network behavioral analysis & security monitoring. All-in-one tool.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=126839071&iu=/4140/ostg.cl... _______________________________________________ Genode-main mailing list Genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/genode-main
Christian-
Wow, Thanks... this certainly gets me thinking that it's time to learn to build up a Genode based system on my (little, 4GigByte) AMD E2 based laptop...
I realize things might get a bit cramped... but I already run Win7 under Virtual box, hosted via Ubuntu 13.04... Not so inclined to keep hosting by way of Ubuntu...
Is it still to early to try this.... I have to admit it would be great to have a LiveCD.... but I also realize you guys must be very busy... Great Work!...
what a vision!
all the best -Peter
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 2:51 AM, Christian Helmuth < christian.helmuth@...1...> wrote:
Just now, we released a fresh version of Genode, which focuses on storage and virtualization. With this release, we bring block-device access and file-system support on the next level paving the way to use Genode as general-purpose OS. The port of VirtualBox adds support for a wide range of guest OSes (including MS Windows) to the long history of virtualization on Genode. The main features and improvements of the current release are:
- VirtualBox running on the NOVA microhypervisor
- Base framework
- Improved stack management
- Storage
- NetBSD file systems ported via rump kernels
- Revised block-driver framework
- New block cache
- New FUSE-based NTFS-3g support
- Ported e2fsprogs to the Noux runtime
- Low-level OS infrastructure
- New pseudo file system as tracing front end
- Unified interfaces for graphics
- New status-reporting mechanism
- Nitpicker support for dynamic screen resizing
- Libraries and applications
- Extended Noux runtime with POSIX signals
- Dynamic ROM service
- Platforms
- Basic support ODROID XU
More details about version 14.02 can be found in the release documentation here
http://genode.org/documentation/release-notes/14.02
Happy hacking with Genode
Christian Helmuth Genode Labs
http://www.genode-labs.com/ · http://genode.org/ https://twitter.com/GenodeLabs · /ˈdʒiː.nəʊd/
Genode Labs GmbH · Amtsgericht Dresden · HRB 28424 · Sitz Dresden Geschäftsführer: Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske, Christian Helmuth
Flow-based real-time traffic analytics software. Cisco certified tool. Monitor traffic, SLAs, QoS, Medianet, WAAS etc. with NetFlow Analyzer Customize your own dashboards, set traffic alerts and generate reports. Network behavioral analysis & security monitoring. All-in-one tool.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=126839071&iu=/4140/ostg.cl... _______________________________________________ Genode-main mailing list Genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/genode-main
Hi, I'd support Lonie's comments about the importance of a live CD. Of course we picked up Genode and did the whole build, but the first exploration we did was the live CD. I know of people in other companies who abandoned Genode because of the apparent difficulty of use.
You need express pizazz!! Daniel
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:06 AM, Lonnie Cumberland < lonnie@...218...> wrote:
Hi Norman,
Thanks for the quick reply and for the link to the LiveCD discussion.
I can see that once there is a LiveCD out to show the new feature like Virtualbox then that will definitely promote more popularity as most people like to see things in action before diving into the code. I have found that people like this a lot as it gives them a chance to imagine how the LiveCD features and aspects could possibly fit into their own projects and goals.
I looked at the live system link that you provided and am eagerly looking forward to seeing that system in operation.
If I also might make a suggestion that I think would help, then I would like to suggest that you also publish a "howto" on building the LiveCD (live system once it is ready) from the sources in a step-by-step approach as most folks that are interested in something new first want to see a LiveCD and then most of them are interested in being able to very easily replicate the building of the LiveCD, for example, as a first step towards their own systems and/or enhancements.
I have noticed that if folks cannot get through these steps easily then their interest seems to waver to other projects that they can demonstrate this, and I think that the reason is because the first steps are exploratory for them which gives them a indication as to how difficult a system might be to work with.
Even if the code easily compiles from sources, but there is no LiveCD (live system to explore) then the general inference is that "it" is to hard to work with and people tend to move on.
Just my opinion, but if Genode wants to become a general OS then the psychological aspects will definitely come into play as a major factor in the growth and popularity of a system.
As for mysef, I look forward to seeing the Live System when it is ready.
Kind Regards and have a great day, Lonnie
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Norman Feske < norman.feske@...1...> wrote:
Thanks Lonnie for your feedback!
This is wonderful news about the latest Genode 14.02 with all of these great improvements.
I saw the sources out at sourceforge, but was also wondering if there was a livecd or democd available so that I could explore some of these new things before having to go through the build process?
there is no live CD unfortunately. Most parts of the release are not end-user-facing features but rather geared towards developers who build systems with Genode. The best way to explore them is to try out the various new run scripts cited in the release documentation, and to start tinkering. :-)
Regarding the live system, there exists a topic at our issue tracker:
https://github.com/genodelabs/genode/issues/1000
We are actively working on the various outstanding issues brought up in the discussion but are hesitant to release a live system to a wider audience with the remaining open points unresolved.
Best regards Norman
-- Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske Genode Labs
http://www.genode-labs.com · http://genode.org
Genode Labs GmbH · Amtsgericht Dresden · HRB 28424 · Sitz Dresden Geschäftsführer: Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske, Christian Helmuth
Flow-based real-time traffic analytics software. Cisco certified tool. Monitor traffic, SLAs, QoS, Medianet, WAAS etc. with NetFlow Analyzer Customize your own dashboards, set traffic alerts and generate reports. Network behavioral analysis & security monitoring. All-in-one tool.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=126839071&iu=/4140/ostg.cl... _______________________________________________ Genode-main mailing list Genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/genode-main
Flow-based real-time traffic analytics software. Cisco certified tool. Monitor traffic, SLAs, QoS, Medianet, WAAS etc. with NetFlow Analyzer Customize your own dashboards, set traffic alerts and generate reports. Network behavioral analysis & security monitoring. All-in-one tool.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=126839071&iu=/4140/ostg.cl... _______________________________________________ Genode-main mailing list Genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/genode-main
Hi Lonnie,
I agree on the points you made for making Genode more popular. The live system will certainly raise much more awareness of our project than the regular releases.
However, I see popularity as a two-sided sword. Of course, getting more attention increases the chance for more people joining our community and bringing forward the technology together with us, which is ultimately a good thing. Maybe it will even foster the consideration of Genode for products of companies that are unaware of Genode yet.
On the other hand, I am afraid of two things. First, the live system has to be really good and convincing to developers and end users alike. Otherwise, people will give it a try, it may leave a half-baked impression on them, and this impression will stick for a long time. Some people are quick with their judgments, in particular end users. In contrast people who spend the effort to download and compile source code are less likely to draw conclusions too quickly. The latter I would call our target "demographic", which I feel safe to address right now. The live system widens the audience. So we have to address the topics discussed in issue #1000. And we need to pay attention to thorough testing and little details, which is a lot of work in addition to the actual features to present.
The second point that worries me is related to Daniel's email. Once, the live system achieves to get people hooked on Genode, they may have high expectations on how easy it is to customize the live system. If such people download the source code but then hit a wall, this experience will leave a bad aftertaste as well. To see what I mean:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ubzu9/genode_os_framework_1205_...
Such a bad experience can do our project more harm than it helps us, especially when it becomes an universal truth through public postings like the first comment of the thread above. So we either have to clearly communicate that the live system is just an example to show off Genode's capabilities, or we have to make it really easily "hackable". I would prefer the latter. But making Genode easier to use is hard. In particular because "easy to use" for us developers has a different meaning to "easy to use" for, let's say, a GNU/Linux power user. The current "make prepare" and "make run/..." mechanisms are a good start but still far from being easy.
Please don't get me wrong. I don't want to shy away from the live system. But I regard it as a very sensitive topic. I certainly want to make Genode more popular, but we have to make sure to leave a sustainable good impression, not just on our immediate target demographic but on a broader audience. So we should give it the time needed to make us developers feel confident with it.
Best regards Norman
Hi Daniel,
thanks for tuning in! Good to know how we caught your attention in the first place.
I'd support Lonie's comments about the importance of a live CD. Of course we picked up Genode and did the whole build, but the first exploration we did was the live CD. I know of people in other companies who abandoned Genode because of the apparent difficulty of use.
Could you get a bit more specific about which aspects of Genode appeared difficult to the people you cite? Was it the architecture, the build system, the (lacking?) quality of the documentation, the use of a specific kernel, or something else?
Cheers Norman
Hi Norman,
Thanks for your wonderful email and I do agree with much of what you have said. Currently, Genode is a wonderful, and evolving developmental OS. It is coming along VERY nicely and I can see great potential for it as things move forward.
That being said, it seems that currently you are targeting developers, which is also a good thing as it will contribute to the growth and stability of Genode. Perhaps at some future point, when Genode wants to step into the broader user base (ie. Beyond mainly developers) then that will be the main times in which Genode will want to have a good LiveCD which will be used to attract a more diverse user-base. As you can see, in the Linux world, there are many flavors available and some of them are just for developers while others are more globally focused on a whole array of types of users.
Daniels point is spot-on in that people will absolutely want to modify, and also initial replicate, the build of the LiveCD. I know that is something that I will want to do for sure.
Ultimately, you will want to show-off the potential of Genode with a good LiveCD as you have in your roadmap since the standards by which Genode will be judged, like it or not, will be against the popular OS's like Windows, Linux, and perhaps even OSX. If people can "see", or envision a potential for Genode to be better then it will take off and you will gain a huge number of developers and end-users alike.
In my case, I am currently focused on having NOVA+Genode+VirtualBox in a type of updated version of the NOVA v0.3 demo, but to spawn off VirtualBox instances and have a graphical Tutor section for a Type-1 Hypervisor that "might" be able to compete with the other existing Type-1 hypervisors like Xen, Hyper-V, and VMWare as I think that the NOVA+Genode+VirtualBox (once the networking and SMP areas are working) can be a great alternative to the other hypervisors while also allowing Genode/NOVA to move slowly into the competition space for hypervisors.
This is the project that I am trying to ramp up and slowly get started. Additionally, my goal will be, beyond the initial Type-1 hypervisor system, will be to further modify VirtualBox (in a special fork) to allow for a "distributed SMP and distributed memory" VMM so that I will be able to run it on commodity desktops with one instance of VB running the desktop OS (like Windows 7) and another instance of VB running the distributed VMM and peer connecting to other distributed VMM's on the LAN to make a hugely distributed SMP machine (ie.. cluster with a single OS) and hundreds of nodes. I also want to keep the build as minimum in size as is possible.
In my day job, I would (as a Physicist) at a research facility where such a system would be very useful for running various modelers and simulators that we run and which has prompted my strong interest in NOVA+Genode+VirtualBox.
Anyway, its a long-term project for me but I think that Genode is the best approach as I can also learn a lot at the project proceeds forward.
Right now, I am working on trying to get just Genode + NOVA + VirtualBox to compile up cleanly and easily.
One question on this. When I am in my build directory and have done the make prepare for VB. What is the "make" command to just make Genode+NOVA+VirtualBox as it seems that when I issue "make" the system wants to build everything which is what I do not need?
Best Regards, Lonnie
-----Original Message----- From: Norman Feske [mailto:norman.feske@...1...] Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2014 7:14 AM To: genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: Announcement: Genode OS Framework version 14.02 released
Hi Lonnie,
I agree on the points you made for making Genode more popular. The live system will certainly raise much more awareness of our project than the regular releases.
However, I see popularity as a two-sided sword. Of course, getting more attention increases the chance for more people joining our community and bringing forward the technology together with us, which is ultimately a good thing. Maybe it will even foster the consideration of Genode for products of companies that are unaware of Genode yet.
On the other hand, I am afraid of two things. First, the live system has to be really good and convincing to developers and end users alike. Otherwise, people will give it a try, it may leave a half-baked impression on them, and this impression will stick for a long time. Some people are quick with their judgments, in particular end users. In contrast people who spend the effort to download and compile source code are less likely to draw conclusions too quickly. The latter I would call our target "demographic", which I feel safe to address right now. The live system widens the audience. So we have to address the topics discussed in issue #1000. And we need to pay attention to thorough testing and little details, which is a lot of work in addition to the actual features to present.
The second point that worries me is related to Daniel's email. Once, the live system achieves to get people hooked on Genode, they may have high expectations on how easy it is to customize the live system. If such people download the source code but then hit a wall, this experience will leave a bad aftertaste as well. To see what I mean:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ubzu9/genode_os_framework_1205_ runs_gcc_plays_media_and/
Such a bad experience can do our project more harm than it helps us, especially when it becomes an universal truth through public postings like the first comment of the thread above. So we either have to clearly communicate that the live system is just an example to show off Genode's capabilities, or we have to make it really easily "hackable". I would prefer the latter. But making Genode easier to use is hard. In particular because "easy to use" for us developers has a different meaning to "easy to use" for, let's say, a GNU/Linux power user. The current "make prepare" and "make run/..." mechanisms are a good start but still far from being easy.
Please don't get me wrong. I don't want to shy away from the live system. But I regard it as a very sensitive topic. I certainly want to make Genode more popular, but we have to make sure to leave a sustainable good impression, not just on our immediate target demographic but on a broader audience. So we should give it the time needed to make us developers feel confident with it.
Best regards Norman
-- Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske Genode Labs
http://www.genode-labs.com · http://genode.org
Genode Labs GmbH · Amtsgericht Dresden · HRB 28424 · Sitz Dresden Geschäftsführer: Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske, Christian Helmuth
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Flow-based real-time traffic analytics software. Cisco certified tool. Monitor traffic, SLAs, QoS, Medianet, WAAS etc. with NetFlow Analyzer Customize your own dashboards, set traffic alerts and generate reports. Network behavioral analysis & security monitoring. All-in-one tool. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=126839071&iu=/4140/ostg.cl... _______________________________________________ Genode-main mailing list Genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/genode-main
Hello Lonnie,
to answer your embedded question ;-)
On Mon, Mar 03, 2014 at 03:57:04PM -0500, Lonnie Cumberland wrote:
One question on this. When I am in my build directory and have done the make prepare for VB. What is the "make" command to just make Genode+NOVA+VirtualBox as it seems that when I issue "make" the system wants to build everything which is what I do not need?
To build the virtualbox binary you need to add the 'ports' repository to <build dir>/etc/build.conf and issue 'make virtualbox'. We also provide a run script usable via 'make run/virtualbox'. More information about the run script can be found in the release documentation
http://genode.org/documentation/release-notes/14.02#VirtualBox_on_top_of_the...
Happy hacking
Hi Lonnie,
In my case, I am currently focused on having NOVA+Genode+VirtualBox in a type of updated version of the NOVA v0.3 demo, but to spawn off VirtualBox instances and have a graphical Tutor section for a Type-1 Hypervisor that "might" be able to compete with the other existing Type-1 hypervisors like Xen, Hyper-V, and VMWare as I think that the NOVA+Genode+VirtualBox (once the networking and SMP areas are working) can be a great alternative to the other hypervisors while also allowing Genode/NOVA to move slowly into the competition space for hypervisors.
that sounds good! Btw, networking and SMP should work fine with NOVA in general. Of course, VirtualBox is still in flux. For example, there is no support for using the network from a guest OS yet. But that will follow for sure.
This is the project that I am trying to ramp up and slowly get started. Additionally, my goal will be, beyond the initial Type-1 hypervisor system, will be to further modify VirtualBox (in a special fork) to allow for a "distributed SMP and distributed memory" VMM so that I will be able to run it on commodity desktops with one instance of VB running the desktop OS (like Windows 7) and another instance of VB running the distributed VMM and peer connecting to other distributed VMM's on the LAN to make a hugely distributed SMP machine (ie.. cluster with a single OS) and hundreds of nodes. I also want to keep the build as minimum in size as is possible.
In my day job, I would (as a Physicist) at a research facility where such a system would be very useful for running various modelers and simulators that we run and which has prompted my strong interest in NOVA+Genode+VirtualBox.
This is much more involved. To me, it ultimately does not look like a SMP system but a NUMA system. An OS that would span all the VMMs would need to account for this structure to get good performance. By modeling a system like this, you will certainly need to implement a distributed shared memory mechanism. NOVA, with handling page faults at the user level, is generally suitable for that. But the topic is still extremely complex.
Best regards Norman
-
Christian Helmuth -
Daniel Waddington -
Lonnie Cumberland -
Norman Feske -
Peter Lindener