Hi
We are able to run Genode-14.08 on i.MX6 board. Now I am planning to add support for virtualization for Genode on i.MX6.
As the processor is Cortex-A9, it does not have virtualization extensions. So I am planning to implement a hypervisor to run para-virtualized linux, similar to the one proposed in the following paper, http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/archive/pub/2014/03/kvm-arm-the-design-and-im...
I am not sure that would work for ARMv7 as they have only tested for ARMv5. Can you suggest any other para-virtualization solutions preferred for the implementation of Genode. I saw L4Linux but it is a port of linux to L4Re and not to the kernel itself. On the other hand, SierraVisor and Xen are bare metal hypervisors.
The road map for Genode 14.11 says virtualization support for Cortex-A7. I assume you will be using virtualization extensions and not a para-virtualization solution.
Can you suggest which is the best place to start. Should I implement a VMM similar to tz_vmm server or should it be implemented in base-hw as VMM should be in supevisor mode and not user mode.
Regards Praveen Srinivas M.Tech 2nd Year, CSE, IIT Madras
Hi,
On 09/22/2014 08:26 AM, Praveen B wrote:
Hi
We are able to run Genode-14.08 on i.MX6 board. Now I am planning to add support for virtualization for Genode on i.MX6.
As the processor is Cortex-A9, it does not have virtualization extensions. So I am planning to implement a hypervisor to run para-virtualized linux, similar to the one proposed in the following paper, http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/archive/pub/2014/03/kvm-arm-the-design-and-im...
The paper you're refering to doesn't use a para-virtualization approach, but uses hardware assisted virtualization.
I am not sure that would work for ARMv7 as they have only tested for ARMv5. Can you suggest any other para-virtualization solutions preferred for the implementation of Genode. I saw L4Linux but it is a port of linux to L4Re and not to the kernel itself. On the other hand, SierraVisor and Xen are bare metal hypervisors.
You're right vanilla L4Linux is tied to L4Re, but we've a port of L4Linux that runs on Genode, but on Fiasco.OC only. Alternatively, if one instance of Linux is enough for your scenario, you might use the normal world of TrustZone to ease up para-virtualization, as you don't have to implement CPU virtualization on your own, but other devices only. The third alternative of course is to para-virtualize Linux from scratch.
The road map for Genode 14.11 says virtualization support for Cortex-A7. I assume you will be using virtualization extensions and not a para-virtualization solution.
Yes, we're planning to support hardware-assisted virtualization, although it should be called Cortex-A15 instead of Cortex-A7. Nevertheless, the difference should be negligible.
Can you suggest which is the best place to start. Should I implement a VMM similar to tz_vmm server or should it be implemented in base-hw as VMM should be in supevisor mode and not user mode.
If you're planning to build a para-virtualized solution on your own, I would strongly recommend to follow the spirit of Genode's microkernel based architecture. To minimize the trusted computing base (TCB) of all applications, the kernel shouldn't include code that is used just by a corner-case (para-virtualization) application. Instead use the scheme of having the virtual machine monitor within the user-mode. Thereby, the VMM might be linked together with the para-virtualized VM, like it is done in the L4Linux approach, or you change to a disjunct VMM task whenever the VM traps.
Regards Stefan
Regards Praveen Srinivas M.Tech 2nd Year, CSE, IIT Madras
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Praveen, Why dont you use the fiasco.oc proto and clean it up? You will have to use fiasco instead of genode base hw mk but as long as f.oc is smp, you will have everything you want. On Sep 22, 2014 3:26 PM, "Stefan Kalkowski" < stefan.kalkowski@...1...> wrote:
Hi,
On 09/22/2014 08:26 AM, Praveen B wrote:
Hi
We are able to run Genode-14.08 on i.MX6 board. Now I am planning to add support for virtualization for Genode on i.MX6.
As the processor is Cortex-A9, it does not have virtualization extensions. So I am planning to implement a hypervisor to run para-virtualized linux, similar to the one proposed in the following
paper,
http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/archive/pub/2014/03/kvm-arm-the-design-and-im...
The paper you're refering to doesn't use a para-virtualization approach, but uses hardware assisted virtualization.
I am not sure that would work for ARMv7 as they have only tested for ARMv5. Can you suggest any other para-virtualization solutions preferred for the implementation of Genode. I saw L4Linux but it is a port of linux to L4Re and not to the kernel itself. On the other hand, SierraVisor and Xen are bare metal hypervisors.
You're right vanilla L4Linux is tied to L4Re, but we've a port of L4Linux that runs on Genode, but on Fiasco.OC only. Alternatively, if one instance of Linux is enough for your scenario, you might use the normal world of TrustZone to ease up para-virtualization, as you don't have to implement CPU virtualization on your own, but other devices only. The third alternative of course is to para-virtualize Linux from scratch.
The road map for Genode 14.11 says virtualization support for Cortex-A7. I assume you will be using virtualization extensions and not a para-virtualization solution.
Yes, we're planning to support hardware-assisted virtualization, although it should be called Cortex-A15 instead of Cortex-A7. Nevertheless, the difference should be negligible.
Can you suggest which is the best place to start. Should I implement a VMM similar to tz_vmm server or should it be implemented in base-hw as VMM should be in supevisor mode and not user mode.
If you're planning to build a para-virtualized solution on your own, I would strongly recommend to follow the spirit of Genode's microkernel based architecture. To minimize the trusted computing base (TCB) of all applications, the kernel shouldn't include code that is used just by a corner-case (para-virtualization) application. Instead use the scheme of having the virtual machine monitor within the user-mode. Thereby, the VMM might be linked together with the para-virtualized VM, like it is done in the L4Linux approach, or you change to a disjunct VMM task whenever the VM traps.
Regards Stefan
Regards Praveen Srinivas M.Tech 2nd Year, CSE, IIT Madras
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Norman, Thank you for the reply.
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Stefan Kalkowski < stefan.kalkowski@...1...> wrote:
Hi,
On 09/22/2014 08:26 AM, Praveen B wrote:
Hi
We are able to run Genode-14.08 on i.MX6 board. Now I am planning to add support for virtualization for Genode on i.MX6.
As the processor is Cortex-A9, it does not have virtualization extensions. So I am planning to implement a hypervisor to run para-virtualized linux, similar to the one proposed in the following
paper,
http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/archive/pub/2014/03/kvm-arm-the-design-and-im...
The paper you're refering to doesn't use a para-virtualization approach, but uses hardware assisted virtualization.
I'm sorry. That was wrong link. The paper is, http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/archive/pub/2010/07/kvm-for-arm/
I am not sure that would work for ARMv7 as they have only tested for ARMv5. Can you suggest any other para-virtualization solutions preferred for the implementation of Genode. I saw L4Linux but it is a port of linux to L4Re and not to the kernel itself. On the other hand, SierraVisor and Xen are bare metal hypervisors.
You're right vanilla L4Linux is tied to L4Re, but we've a port of L4Linux that runs on Genode, but on Fiasco.OC only. Alternatively, if one instance of Linux is enough for your scenario, you might use the normal world of TrustZone to ease up para-virtualization, as you don't have to implement CPU virtualization on your own, but other devices only. The third alternative of course is to para-virtualize Linux from scratch.
We will use the first option, that is, L4Linux with Genode on Fiasco.OC. Thank you
Regards Praveen
The road map for Genode 14.11 says virtualization support for Cortex-A7. I assume you will be using virtualization extensions and not a para-virtualization solution.
Yes, we're planning to support hardware-assisted virtualization, although it should be called Cortex-A15 instead of Cortex-A7. Nevertheless, the difference should be negligible.
Can you suggest which is the best place to start. Should I implement a VMM similar to tz_vmm server or should it be implemented in base-hw as VMM should be in supevisor mode and not user mode.
If you're planning to build a para-virtualized solution on your own, I would strongly recommend to follow the spirit of Genode's microkernel based architecture. To minimize the trusted computing base (TCB) of all applications, the kernel shouldn't include code that is used just by a corner-case (para-virtualization) application. Instead use the scheme of having the virtual machine monitor within the user-mode. Thereby, the VMM might be linked together with the para-virtualized VM, like it is done in the L4Linux approach, or you change to a disjunct VMM task whenever the VM traps.
Regards Stefan
Regards Praveen Srinivas M.Tech 2nd Year, CSE, IIT Madras
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http://www.genode-labs.com/ · http://genode.org/
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Praveen, You also need only one instance of linux. On Sep 22, 2014 8:39 PM, "Praveen B" <srinivasprv@...9...> wrote:
Norman, Thank you for the reply.
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Stefan Kalkowski < stefan.kalkowski@...1...> wrote:
Hi,
On 09/22/2014 08:26 AM, Praveen B wrote:
Hi
We are able to run Genode-14.08 on i.MX6 board. Now I am planning to add support for virtualization for Genode on i.MX6.
As the processor is Cortex-A9, it does not have virtualization extensions. So I am planning to implement a hypervisor to run para-virtualized linux, similar to the one proposed in the following
paper,
http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/archive/pub/2014/03/kvm-arm-the-design-and-im...
The paper you're refering to doesn't use a para-virtualization approach, but uses hardware assisted virtualization.
I'm sorry. That was wrong link. The paper is, http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/archive/pub/2010/07/kvm-for-arm/
I am not sure that would work for ARMv7 as they have only tested for ARMv5. Can you suggest any other para-virtualization solutions preferred for the implementation of Genode. I saw L4Linux but it is a port of linux to L4Re and not to the kernel itself. On the other hand, SierraVisor and Xen are bare metal hypervisors.
You're right vanilla L4Linux is tied to L4Re, but we've a port of L4Linux that runs on Genode, but on Fiasco.OC only. Alternatively, if one instance of Linux is enough for your scenario, you might use the normal world of TrustZone to ease up para-virtualization, as you don't have to implement CPU virtualization on your own, but other devices only. The third alternative of course is to para-virtualize Linux from scratch.
We will use the first option, that is, L4Linux with Genode on Fiasco.OC. Thank you
Regards Praveen
The road map for Genode 14.11 says virtualization support for Cortex-A7. I assume you will be using virtualization extensions and not a para-virtualization solution.
Yes, we're planning to support hardware-assisted virtualization, although it should be called Cortex-A15 instead of Cortex-A7. Nevertheless, the difference should be negligible.
Can you suggest which is the best place to start. Should I implement a VMM similar to tz_vmm server or should it be implemented in base-hw as VMM should be in supevisor mode and not user mode.
If you're planning to build a para-virtualized solution on your own, I would strongly recommend to follow the spirit of Genode's microkernel based architecture. To minimize the trusted computing base (TCB) of all applications, the kernel shouldn't include code that is used just by a corner-case (para-virtualization) application. Instead use the scheme of having the virtual machine monitor within the user-mode. Thereby, the VMM might be linked together with the para-virtualized VM, like it is done in the L4Linux approach, or you change to a disjunct VMM task whenever the VM traps.
Regards Stefan
Regards Praveen Srinivas M.Tech 2nd Year, CSE, IIT Madras
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http://www.genode-labs.com/ · http://genode.org/
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Hi Stefan, (Sorry I was in a hurry and mentioned Norman in my previous mail)
I can run L4Linux, on i.MX6 board with Genode on Fiasco.OC kernel.
But there is one confusion. Is Genode running as an application in L4Re? How are L4re, Genode and L4Linux related in the port for Fiasco.OC kernel?
Can you give an estimate of how much is the performance drawback of running Genode over Fiasco.OC kernel over base-hw? How do we go about measuring the performance difference?
We need only one virtual linux as Mr.Madhu mentioned. But trustzone is not yet working for i.MX6 board and another student, Chirag, is working on that. We will look into that solution once trustzone works.
But Which one of the three solutions might be the better solution in terms of performance? I think it is Trustzone VM as the guest runs as there is no virtualization overhead of CPU and Memory. Please clarify.
Thanks in advance
Regards Praveen, IIT Madras
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Praveen B <srinivasprv@...9...> wrote:
Norman, Thank you for the reply.
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Stefan Kalkowski < stefan.kalkowski@...1...> wrote:
Hi,
On 09/22/2014 08:26 AM, Praveen B wrote:
Hi
We are able to run Genode-14.08 on i.MX6 board. Now I am planning to add support for virtualization for Genode on i.MX6.
As the processor is Cortex-A9, it does not have virtualization extensions. So I am planning to implement a hypervisor to run para-virtualized linux, similar to the one proposed in the following
paper,
http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/archive/pub/2014/03/kvm-arm-the-design-and-im...
The paper you're refering to doesn't use a para-virtualization approach, but uses hardware assisted virtualization.
I'm sorry. That was wrong link. The paper is, http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/archive/pub/2010/07/kvm-for-arm/
I am not sure that would work for ARMv7 as they have only tested for ARMv5. Can you suggest any other para-virtualization solutions preferred for the implementation of Genode. I saw L4Linux but it is a port of linux to L4Re and not to the kernel itself. On the other hand, SierraVisor and Xen are bare metal hypervisors.
You're right vanilla L4Linux is tied to L4Re, but we've a port of L4Linux that runs on Genode, but on Fiasco.OC only. Alternatively, if one instance of Linux is enough for your scenario, you might use the normal world of TrustZone to ease up para-virtualization, as you don't have to implement CPU virtualization on your own, but other devices only. The third alternative of course is to para-virtualize Linux from scratch.
We will use the first option, that is, L4Linux with Genode on Fiasco.OC. Thank you
Regards Praveen
The road map for Genode 14.11 says virtualization support for Cortex-A7. I assume you will be using virtualization extensions and not a para-virtualization solution.
Yes, we're planning to support hardware-assisted virtualization, although it should be called Cortex-A15 instead of Cortex-A7. Nevertheless, the difference should be negligible.
Can you suggest which is the best place to start. Should I implement a VMM similar to tz_vmm server or should it be implemented in base-hw as VMM should be in supevisor mode and not user mode.
If you're planning to build a para-virtualized solution on your own, I would strongly recommend to follow the spirit of Genode's microkernel based architecture. To minimize the trusted computing base (TCB) of all applications, the kernel shouldn't include code that is used just by a corner-case (para-virtualization) application. Instead use the scheme of having the virtual machine monitor within the user-mode. Thereby, the VMM might be linked together with the para-virtualized VM, like it is done in the L4Linux approach, or you change to a disjunct VMM task whenever the VM traps.
Regards Stefan
Regards Praveen Srinivas M.Tech 2nd Year, CSE, IIT Madras
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Hi Praveen,
On 09/25/2014 12:12 PM, Praveen B wrote:
Hi Stefan, (Sorry I was in a hurry and mentioned Norman in my previous mail)
I can run L4Linux, on i.MX6 board with Genode on Fiasco.OC kernel.
But there is one confusion. Is Genode running as an application in L4Re? How are L4re, Genode and L4Linux related in the port for Fiasco.OC kernel?
Genode isn't running as an application in L4Re. L4Linux in its unmodified form uses L4Re bindings, as well as Fiasco.OC kernel bindings. Our version of L4Linux in Genode replaces the L4Re library with a Genode specific one that implements the same API. However, Genode's L4Linux version is tied to the Fiasco.OC kernel bindings, like the original one.
Can you give an estimate of how much is the performance drawback of running Genode over Fiasco.OC kernel over base-hw? How do we go about measuring the performance difference?
Well, as always this is a matter of what kind of performance test you do. I would be very cautious in judging performance in general.
I can provide exactly two kinds of measurements we're doing regularily.
The first is a network performance test (I/O burden), which measures throughput of packets within a defined time range. The following numbers are measured on a Cortex A9 Pandaboard:
|---------------------------------------| | | Genode/Fiasco.OC | Genode/HW | |---------------------------------------| | RX | 70.2 Mbit/s | 88.8 Mbit/s | |---------------------------------------| | TX | 89.7 MBit/s | 93.7 MBit/s | |---------------------------------------|
The second is compiling Genode's core process on top of Genode. The following numbers are measured on a Cortex A15 Arndale board. With Fiasco.OC the whole test takes 492 seconds, and on the HW-kernel it takes 216 seconds. This test spawns a lot of child processes, and destroys them again. Thereby everything is done sequentially. Fiasco.OC's SMP implementation suffers from a performance weakness when it comes to kernel object deletion. However, we use an already outdated version of Fiasco.OC. It might be that the developers of Fiasco.OC removed this performance weakness in the meantime.
However, when it comes to L4Linux, most performance critical functionality (e.g. paging code) is done using kernel primitives only. That said, the difference of the runtime performance of L4Linux on top of L4Re or Genode should be less important in contrast to ordinary Genode applications. But I haven't measured it in the past.
We need only one virtual linux as Mr.Madhu mentioned. But trustzone is not yet working for i.MX6 board and another student, Chirag, is working on that. We will look into that solution once trustzone works.
But Which one of the three solutions might be the better solution in terms of performance? I think it is Trustzone VM as the guest runs as there is no virtualization overhead of CPU and Memory. Please clarify.
I would assume the same, especially when the VM uses a lot of hardware devices on its behalf. But when doing heavy I/O related stuff on virtualized devices it might be different. As the world switch between non-secure/secure world is more costly than a normal context switch, and the memory transfer (using non-cached memory) is more costly too, a para-virtualized guest in the secure world might be cheaper. Again it depends on the use-case, and you'll have to measure it, if performance is such an issue.
Regards Stefan
Thanks in advance
Regards Praveen, IIT Madras
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Praveen B <srinivasprv@...9... mailto:srinivasprv@...9...> wrote:
Norman, Thank you for the reply. On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Stefan Kalkowski <stefan.kalkowski@...1... <mailto:stefan.kalkowski@...1...>> wrote: Hi, On 09/22/2014 08:26 AM, Praveen B wrote: > Hi > > We are able to run Genode-14.08 on i.MX6 board. > Now I am planning to add support for virtualization for Genode on i.MX6. > > As the processor is Cortex-A9, it does not have virtualization > extensions. So I am planning to implement a hypervisor to run > para-virtualized linux, similar to the one proposed in the following paper, > http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/archive/pub/2014/03/kvm-arm-the-design-and-implementation-of-the-linux-arm-hypervisor/ The paper you're refering to doesn't use a para-virtualization approach, but uses hardware assisted virtualization. I'm sorry. That was wrong link. The paper is, http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/archive/pub/2010/07/kvm-for-arm/ > > I am not sure that would work for ARMv7 as they have only tested for > ARMv5. Can you suggest any other para-virtualization solutions preferred > for the implementation of Genode. I saw L4Linux but it is a port of > linux to L4Re and not to the kernel itself. On the other hand, > SierraVisor and Xen are bare metal hypervisors. You're right vanilla L4Linux is tied to L4Re, but we've a port of L4Linux that runs on Genode, but on Fiasco.OC only. Alternatively, if one instance of Linux is enough for your scenario, you might use the normal world of TrustZone to ease up para-virtualization, as you don't have to implement CPU virtualization on your own, but other devices only. The third alternative of course is to para-virtualize Linux from scratch. We will use the first option, that is, L4Linux with Genode on Fiasco.OC. Thank you Regards Praveen > > The road map for Genode 14.11 says virtualization support for Cortex-A7. > I assume you will be using virtualization extensions and not a > para-virtualization solution. Yes, we're planning to support hardware-assisted virtualization, although it should be called Cortex-A15 instead of Cortex-A7. Nevertheless, the difference should be negligible. > > Can you suggest which is the best place to start. Should I implement a > VMM similar to tz_vmm server or should it be implemented in base-hw as > VMM should be in supevisor mode and not user mode. If you're planning to build a para-virtualized solution on your own, I would strongly recommend to follow the spirit of Genode's microkernel based architecture. To minimize the trusted computing base (TCB) of all applications, the kernel shouldn't include code that is used just by a corner-case (para-virtualization) application. Instead use the scheme of having the virtual machine monitor within the user-mode. Thereby, the VMM might be linked together with the para-virtualized VM, like it is done in the L4Linux approach, or you change to a disjunct VMM task whenever the VM traps. Regards Stefan > > Regards > Praveen Srinivas > M.Tech 2nd Year, > CSE, IIT Madras > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer > Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports > Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper > Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > > > _______________________________________________ > genode-main mailing list > genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/genode-main > -- Stefan Kalkowski Genode Labs http://www.genode-labs.com/ · http://genode.org/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk _______________________________________________ genode-main mailing list genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/genode-main
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Hi Stefan,
Thank you for the information.
Can you explain how we can run the two tests, Network performance and compiling Genode's core on Genode tests? We will use latest Fiasco.OC kernel by modifying etc/foc.conf, if version matters.
For linux performance we will use standard tools.
Regards Praveen
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 6:44 PM, Stefan Kalkowski < stefan.kalkowski@...1...> wrote:
Hi Praveen,
On 09/25/2014 12:12 PM, Praveen B wrote:
Hi Stefan, (Sorry I was in a hurry and mentioned Norman in my previous
mail)
I can run L4Linux, on i.MX6 board with Genode on Fiasco.OC kernel.
But there is one confusion. Is Genode running as an application in L4Re? How are L4re, Genode and L4Linux related in the port for Fiasco.OC kernel?
Genode isn't running as an application in L4Re. L4Linux in its unmodified form uses L4Re bindings, as well as Fiasco.OC kernel bindings. Our version of L4Linux in Genode replaces the L4Re library with a Genode specific one that implements the same API. However, Genode's L4Linux version is tied to the Fiasco.OC kernel bindings, like the original one.
Can you give an estimate of how much is the performance drawback of running Genode over Fiasco.OC kernel over base-hw? How do we go about measuring the performance difference?
Well, as always this is a matter of what kind of performance test you do. I would be very cautious in judging performance in general.
I can provide exactly two kinds of measurements we're doing regularily.
The first is a network performance test (I/O burden), which measures throughput of packets within a defined time range. The following numbers are measured on a Cortex A9 Pandaboard:
|---------------------------------------| | | Genode/Fiasco.OC | Genode/HW | |---------------------------------------| | RX | 70.2 Mbit/s | 88.8 Mbit/s | |---------------------------------------| | TX | 89.7 MBit/s | 93.7 MBit/s | |---------------------------------------|The second is compiling Genode's core process on top of Genode. The following numbers are measured on a Cortex A15 Arndale board. With Fiasco.OC the whole test takes 492 seconds, and on the HW-kernel it takes 216 seconds. This test spawns a lot of child processes, and destroys them again. Thereby everything is done sequentially. Fiasco.OC's SMP implementation suffers from a performance weakness when it comes to kernel object deletion. However, we use an already outdated version of Fiasco.OC. It might be that the developers of Fiasco.OC removed this performance weakness in the meantime.
However, when it comes to L4Linux, most performance critical functionality (e.g. paging code) is done using kernel primitives only. That said, the difference of the runtime performance of L4Linux on top of L4Re or Genode should be less important in contrast to ordinary Genode applications. But I haven't measured it in the past.
We need only one virtual linux as Mr.Madhu mentioned. But trustzone is not yet working for i.MX6 board and another student, Chirag, is working on that. We will look into that solution once trustzone works.
But Which one of the three solutions might be the better solution in terms of performance? I think it is Trustzone VM as the guest runs as there is no virtualization overhead of CPU and Memory. Please clarify.
I would assume the same, especially when the VM uses a lot of hardware devices on its behalf. But when doing heavy I/O related stuff on virtualized devices it might be different. As the world switch between non-secure/secure world is more costly than a normal context switch, and the memory transfer (using non-cached memory) is more costly too, a para-virtualized guest in the secure world might be cheaper. Again it depends on the use-case, and you'll have to measure it, if performance is such an issue.
Regards Stefan
Thanks in advance
Regards Praveen, IIT Madras
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Praveen B <srinivasprv@...9... mailto:srinivasprv@...9...> wrote:
Norman, Thank you for the reply. On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Stefan Kalkowski <stefan.kalkowski@...1... <mailto:stefan.kalkowski@...1...>> wrote: Hi, On 09/22/2014 08:26 AM, Praveen B wrote: > Hi > > We are able to run Genode-14.08 on i.MX6 board. > Now I am planning to add support for virtualization for Genodeon i.MX6.
> > As the processor is Cortex-A9, it does not have virtualization > extensions. So I am planning to implement a hypervisor to run > para-virtualized linux, similar to the one proposed in thefollowing paper,
>http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/archive/pub/2014/03/kvm-arm-the-design-and-im...
The paper you're refering to doesn't use a para-virtualization approach, but uses hardware assisted virtualization. I'm sorry. That was wrong link. The paper is, http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/archive/pub/2010/07/kvm-for-arm/ > > I am not sure that would work for ARMv7 as they have onlytested for
> ARMv5. Can you suggest any other para-virtualization solutionspreferred
> for the implementation of Genode. I saw L4Linux but it is aport of
> linux to L4Re and not to the kernel itself. On the other hand, > SierraVisor and Xen are bare metal hypervisors. You're right vanilla L4Linux is tied to L4Re, but we've a port of L4Linux that runs on Genode, but on Fiasco.OC only. Alternatively, if one instance of Linux is enough for your scenario, you might usethe
normal world of TrustZone to ease up para-virtualization, as you don't have to implement CPU virtualization on your own, but otherdevices
only. The third alternative of course is to para-virtualize Linux from scratch. We will use the first option, that is, L4Linux with Genode onFiasco.OC.
Thank you Regards Praveen > > The road map for Genode 14.11 says virtualization support forCortex-A7.
> I assume you will be using virtualization extensions and not a > para-virtualization solution. Yes, we're planning to support hardware-assisted virtualization, although it should be called Cortex-A15 instead of Cortex-A7. Nevertheless, the difference should be negligible. > > Can you suggest which is the best place to start. Should Iimplement a
> VMM similar to tz_vmm server or should it be implemented inbase-hw as
> VMM should be in supevisor mode and not user mode. If you're planning to build a para-virtualized solution on your own, I would strongly recommend to follow the spirit of Genode's microkernel based architecture. To minimize the trusted computing base (TCB) of all applications, the kernel shouldn't include code that is used just by a corner-case (para-virtualization) application. Instead use the scheme of having the virtual machine monitor within the user-mode. Thereby, the VMM might be linked together with the para-virtualized VM, like it is done in the L4Linux approach, or you change to a disjunct VMMtask
whenever the VM traps. Regards Stefan > > Regards > Praveen Srinivas > M.Tech 2nd Year, > CSE, IIT Madras > > >
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> > > > _______________________________________________ > genode-main mailing list > genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/genode-main > -- Stefan Kalkowski Genode Labs http://www.genode-labs.com/ · http://genode.org/
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http://www.genode-labs.com/ · http://genode.org/
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Hi Praveen,
On 09/26/2014 11:16 AM, Praveen B wrote:
Hi Stefan,
Thank you for the information.
Can you explain how we can run the two tests, Network performance and compiling Genode's core on Genode tests?
The network performance was measured using the run script "netperf_lwip", the Genode core compilation is measured using "noux_tool_chain_auto". Both run scripts can be found in the 'ports' repository, under 'repos/ports/run'.
We will use latest Fiasco.OC kernel by modifying etc/foc.conf, if version matters.
It's just an assumption, as I said I don't know whether the developers of Fiasco.OC fixed the SMP performance weakness in a more recent version. The following e-mail from Christian Prochaska on the l4-hackers mailing list explains the SMP problem in more detail:
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.micro-kernel.l4.devel/4896
Just a warning: if you're planning to upgrade to a more recent version of Fiasco.OC, don't expect that everthing will run out-of-the-box.
Regards Stefan
For linux performance we will use standard tools.
Regards Praveen
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 6:44 PM, Stefan Kalkowski < stefan.kalkowski@...1...> wrote:
Hi Praveen,
On 09/25/2014 12:12 PM, Praveen B wrote:
Hi Stefan, (Sorry I was in a hurry and mentioned Norman in my previous
mail)
I can run L4Linux, on i.MX6 board with Genode on Fiasco.OC kernel.
But there is one confusion. Is Genode running as an application in L4Re? How are L4re, Genode and L4Linux related in the port for Fiasco.OC kernel?
Genode isn't running as an application in L4Re. L4Linux in its unmodified form uses L4Re bindings, as well as Fiasco.OC kernel bindings. Our version of L4Linux in Genode replaces the L4Re library with a Genode specific one that implements the same API. However, Genode's L4Linux version is tied to the Fiasco.OC kernel bindings, like the original one.
Can you give an estimate of how much is the performance drawback of running Genode over Fiasco.OC kernel over base-hw? How do we go about measuring the performance difference?
Well, as always this is a matter of what kind of performance test you do. I would be very cautious in judging performance in general.
I can provide exactly two kinds of measurements we're doing regularily.
The first is a network performance test (I/O burden), which measures throughput of packets within a defined time range. The following numbers are measured on a Cortex A9 Pandaboard:
|---------------------------------------| | | Genode/Fiasco.OC | Genode/HW | |---------------------------------------| | RX | 70.2 Mbit/s | 88.8 Mbit/s | |---------------------------------------| | TX | 89.7 MBit/s | 93.7 MBit/s | |---------------------------------------|The second is compiling Genode's core process on top of Genode. The following numbers are measured on a Cortex A15 Arndale board. With Fiasco.OC the whole test takes 492 seconds, and on the HW-kernel it takes 216 seconds. This test spawns a lot of child processes, and destroys them again. Thereby everything is done sequentially. Fiasco.OC's SMP implementation suffers from a performance weakness when it comes to kernel object deletion. However, we use an already outdated version of Fiasco.OC. It might be that the developers of Fiasco.OC removed this performance weakness in the meantime.
However, when it comes to L4Linux, most performance critical functionality (e.g. paging code) is done using kernel primitives only. That said, the difference of the runtime performance of L4Linux on top of L4Re or Genode should be less important in contrast to ordinary Genode applications. But I haven't measured it in the past.
We need only one virtual linux as Mr.Madhu mentioned. But trustzone is not yet working for i.MX6 board and another student, Chirag, is working on that. We will look into that solution once trustzone works.
But Which one of the three solutions might be the better solution in terms of performance? I think it is Trustzone VM as the guest runs as there is no virtualization overhead of CPU and Memory. Please clarify.
I would assume the same, especially when the VM uses a lot of hardware devices on its behalf. But when doing heavy I/O related stuff on virtualized devices it might be different. As the world switch between non-secure/secure world is more costly than a normal context switch, and the memory transfer (using non-cached memory) is more costly too, a para-virtualized guest in the secure world might be cheaper. Again it depends on the use-case, and you'll have to measure it, if performance is such an issue.
Regards Stefan
Thanks in advance
Regards Praveen, IIT Madras
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Praveen B <srinivasprv@...9... mailto:srinivasprv@...9...> wrote:
Norman, Thank you for the reply. On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Stefan Kalkowski <stefan.kalkowski@...1... <mailto:stefan.kalkowski@...1...>> wrote: Hi, On 09/22/2014 08:26 AM, Praveen B wrote: > Hi > > We are able to run Genode-14.08 on i.MX6 board. > Now I am planning to add support for virtualization for Genodeon i.MX6.
> > As the processor is Cortex-A9, it does not have virtualization > extensions. So I am planning to implement a hypervisor to run > para-virtualized linux, similar to the one proposed in thefollowing paper,
>http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/archive/pub/2014/03/kvm-arm-the-design-and-im...
The paper you're refering to doesn't use a para-virtualization approach, but uses hardware assisted virtualization. I'm sorry. That was wrong link. The paper is, http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/archive/pub/2010/07/kvm-for-arm/ > > I am not sure that would work for ARMv7 as they have onlytested for
> ARMv5. Can you suggest any other para-virtualization solutionspreferred
> for the implementation of Genode. I saw L4Linux but it is aport of
> linux to L4Re and not to the kernel itself. On the other hand, > SierraVisor and Xen are bare metal hypervisors. You're right vanilla L4Linux is tied to L4Re, but we've a port of L4Linux that runs on Genode, but on Fiasco.OC only. Alternatively, if one instance of Linux is enough for your scenario, you might usethe
normal world of TrustZone to ease up para-virtualization, as you don't have to implement CPU virtualization on your own, but otherdevices
only. The third alternative of course is to para-virtualize Linux from scratch. We will use the first option, that is, L4Linux with Genode onFiasco.OC.
Thank you Regards Praveen > > The road map for Genode 14.11 says virtualization support forCortex-A7.
> I assume you will be using virtualization extensions and not a > para-virtualization solution. Yes, we're planning to support hardware-assisted virtualization, although it should be called Cortex-A15 instead of Cortex-A7. Nevertheless, the difference should be negligible. > > Can you suggest which is the best place to start. Should Iimplement a
> VMM similar to tz_vmm server or should it be implemented inbase-hw as
> VMM should be in supevisor mode and not user mode. If you're planning to build a para-virtualized solution on your own, I would strongly recommend to follow the spirit of Genode's microkernel based architecture. To minimize the trusted computing base (TCB) of all applications, the kernel shouldn't include code that is used just by a corner-case (para-virtualization) application. Instead use the scheme of having the virtual machine monitor within the user-mode. Thereby, the VMM might be linked together with the para-virtualized VM, like it is done in the L4Linux approach, or you change to a disjunct VMMtask
whenever the VM traps. Regards Stefan > > Regards > Praveen Srinivas > M.Tech 2nd Year, > CSE, IIT Madras > > >
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> > > > _______________________________________________ > genode-main mailing list > genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/genode-main > -- Stefan Kalkowski Genode Labs http://www.genode-labs.com/ · http://genode.org/
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Stefan,
On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Stefan Kalkowski < stefan.kalkowski@...1...> wrote:
Hi Praveen,
On 09/26/2014 11:16 AM, Praveen B wrote:
Hi Stefan,
Thank you for the information.
Can you explain how we can run the two tests, Network performance and compiling Genode's core on Genode tests?
The network performance was measured using the run script "netperf_lwip", the Genode core compilation is measured using "noux_tool_chain_auto". Both run scripts can be found in the 'ports' repository, under 'repos/ports/run'.
Thank you. We will use them for our tests.
We will use latest Fiasco.OC kernel by modifying etc/foc.conf, if version matters.
It's just an assumption, as I said I don't know whether the developers of Fiasco.OC fixed the SMP performance weakness in a more recent version. The following e-mail from Christian Prochaska on the l4-hackers mailing list explains the SMP problem in more detail:
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.micro-kernel.l4.devel/4896
I'll run L4Linux on L4Re on both the kernels(old and new). If I can find significant performance improvement then I'll try to run over Genode.
Just a warning: if you're planning to upgrade to a more recent version of Fiasco.OC, don't expect that everthing will run out-of-the-box.
If there are some issues like makefiles and toolchains, I might be able to handle them. Otherwise, I'll get back to you.
Thanks and Regards Praveen
Regards Stefan
-
Norman Feske -
Praveen B -
S Madhu -
Stefan Kalkowski