Along with adding features to the base-hw kernel, I would suggest an emphasis on improving its performance. I have tried my own Sculpt-like scenario on that kernel, and I found that the mouse was sluggish when I tried dragging a window around. I had no such problem on NOVA.
My particular example indicates that the base-hw kernel has performance issues that need to be resolved, beyond just its lack of SMP support. I would like to see it running much more smoothly later this year.
Aside from that, like Stefan, I would like to see window management improvements. In particular, I would like to see the buttons on the title bar actually working. This might just be an issue with current graphical apps, such as nit_fb, but wherever the issue is, it should be fixed this year.
On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 6:45 AM, Norman Feske <norman.feske@...1...> wrote:
Hi Stefan,
To me personally it seems 2018 will be the year of "sculpt", and although I much appreciate my daily work on a Genode base, I fear other activities will become orphaned - which is our own kernel and support of embedded platforms.
Let me try to dispel your fear. My line of thoughts is as follows:
- NOVA cannot be Genode's long-term future.
We carry the burden of maintaining NOVA alone (where "we" is for the most part one person - hi Alex!). Note that I am speaking of maintaining, not developing. It is clear that we won't expand our engagement beyond the current level. Solving the remaining fundamental deficiencies of the kernel, in particular the kernel-resource management, is not on our agenda. This would be a different story if there was an active community around the kernel. But there is none to speak of.
Feature-wise, NOVA is complete. So it is definitely a suitable basis for today and the immediate future. But in the longer term, its limitations will become a burden that we must overcome.
- Base-hw solves NOVA's architectural problems but lacks features.
The base-hw kernel facilitates Genode's architecture to solve problems that are extremely complicated to solve in other kernels (seL4 comes to mind) or unsolved (NOVA). But its feature set is incomplete.
Since we won't take NOVA to the level we need in the longer term, the conclusion can only be what you just suggested: adding the missing features to base-hw:
- revert kernel optimization to share the address space with other components at least on top of x86, keyword: meltdown
- enable SMP for x86
- implement IOMMU support
- add x86 hypervisor functionality to hw
So how about combining the overall theme "Sculpt" with this ambition? Should we set up the goal to run Sculpt on base-hw by the end of the year?
You may wonder about the role of seL4 in this discussion. In contrast to NOVA, it is actively developed and there is a welcoming community around it. It is also fairly feature complete. On the other hand, it is complicated and we cannot easily tailor it to our needs. This is not a critique but a just consequence from seL4's focus. In contrast to seL4, base-hw was co-designed with Genode. So it is simple and frictionless, and puts us in control over everything. Hence, I see seL4 and base-hw in complimentary roles. (A) In situations where seL4's formal-verification story is anticipated, Genode enables seL4 to carry highly dynamic workloads. (B) For Genode use cases that call for the highest-possible simplicity, or that benefit from our full control over the kernel, base-hw is attractive.
Even though I often hear that (A) is super interesting, Genode/seL4 has no commercial backing yet. I.e., there are no customers with the ambition to drive Genode's seL4 support via commissioned development projects. Naturally, as a Genode developer, my personal use case falls into category (B). So I wholeheartedly support your plan!
Cheers Norman
-- Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske Genode Labs
https://www.genode-labs.com · https://genode.org
Genode Labs GmbH · Amtsgericht Dresden · HRB 28424 · Sitz Dresden Geschäftsführer: Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske, Christian Helmuth
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ genode-main mailing list genode-main@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/genode-main