SandStorm.io on Genode ?

Fri Feb 26 20:57:28 CET 2016

Dear
   Kenton, Norman,
       and fellow Genodians-

   Good to hear that things are beginning to work well in Sandstorm Land..
Norman and others at Genode Labs, have already brought up Virtual_Box under
Genode, so perhaps, one might be able to alreay run a SandStorm server
within Genode's Virual_Box ? ...   I take it, that Genode's bridging of
Virtual_Box's network service should already be enough to do the trick on
the server side..
Genode also already  supports QT5, but I gather a Genode customized Linux
ABI layer may still be a ways off (Norman?)..

  It would be great if Genode were to adopt Capt'n_Proto.. as part of it's
next Gen RPC support... but my hunch is that both might learn a few tricks
from the other...
..so I'm hopping that the Technical exchange between the teams at Genode
Labs and Sandstorm turns out to be a gold mine for architecting the next
generation of significant innovation in both.

    -Peter (SaxMan) Lindener..   [Advanced Voting System Theorist]

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 8:51 PM, Kenton Varda <kenton at ...403...> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> From a brief look at Genode, it seems it and Sandstorm have a lot in
> common at an abstract level. We're both building capability systems, and
> we're both aiming to solve security an the platform level so that apps
> don't have to think about it.
>
> Practically speaking, though, Sandstorm applications currently expect a
> Linux ABI (including most common syscalls), which probably means that
> making Sandstorm run directly on top of Genode would be a complicated
> project. I would love to see Sandstorm running on a better kernel than
> Linux someday, but it's going to be tricky.
>
> In the shorter term, the way to achieve interoperability between the
> systems would be to define some sort of a bridge between Cap'n Proto and
> Genode's RPC -- or maybe adopt Cap'n Proto as the RPC system in Genode, if
> that is still possible. If we can all agree on a capability transport
> protocol then it becomes a lot easier to gradually move software into purer
> systems. (Note that Cap'n Proto is based on CapTP with direct input from
> Mark Miller. But, compared to CapTP, Cap'n Proto is much more efficient to
> encode/decode.)
>
> -Kenton
>
> On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 1:13 PM, Peter Lindener <lindener.peter at ...9...>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear
>>    Kenton  (Varda <https://github.com/kentonv> founder of SandStorm.io
>> <https://sandstorm.io/>,
>>    Norman (Feske  <https://github.com/nfeske>founder of genode-labs.com
>> <http://genode.org/>
>>
>>        and Fellow Genodians...
>>
>>    Given Kenton's concern for security in SandStorm.io
>> <https://sandstorm.io/>..
>> and that it's unlikely that Linux, with it's humongous monolithic kernel,
>> will ever deliver anything that resembles real security..
>>
>> .. so I'm wondering if it might be a good match to look at running
>> SandStorm.io <https://sandstorm.io/> severs within the Genode OS
>> <http://genode.org/> ?
>>
>>    To further fill out a possible vision:
>> I just ordered a couple of Pine_64, Quadcore ARM64 boards
>> <https://www.pine64.com/> (with 2GB of ram)..
>>
>>    I am currently bringing up the code for Social Decision System kernel
>> based upon the Groves-Clarke Mechanism
>> <http://www.econ.ucsb.edu/~tedb/Courses/UCSBpf/pflectures/groves.pdf>,
>> which is essentially the ideal when it comes to Strategic Voting Game
>> Theoretic Mechanism Design
>> <http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~parkes/pubs/ch2.pdf>..
>>    while the Python / C++11 code is still in an embryonic state... the
>> underlying theory for how this Game Theoretic solver would operate is
>> fairly far along..
>>     The plan is to open source this solver code, once it passes a full
>> set of included cross validation unit tests.
>>     I have been looking at how this Groves-Clarke Mechanism
>> <http://www.econ.ucsb.edu/~tedb/Courses/UCSBpf/pflectures/groves.pdf> solver
>> can be deployed across a network, to permit this algorithm to scale up to
>> tackle larger problems in Information / Game Social Choice
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_choice_theory> theory. (i.e, the
>> longer term direction of our democracy)...
>>
>>     I was encouraged to find Kenton's 2nd generation work Cap'n-proto
>> <https://capnproto.org/> which I gather provides some of SandStorm.io
>> <https://sandstorm.io/>'s core network functionality... a clear advance
>> in the state of networked system affairs...
>>    I also have taken notice of Genode's Server framework
>> <http://genode.org/documentation/api/base_index#Inter-process_communication>..
>>  and I would like to leverage the advanced perspectives of both,  as I
>> construct the network services layer that will underlie this computer
>> assisted support of a truly democratic Social Decision system.
>>
>>    my wish list is as follows:
>> 1. Genode might somday run on ARMv8 (64bit)...   It would be great if the
>> Pine_64 would eventualy run Genode right out of the box..
>>
>> 2.Cap'n-proto <https://capnproto.org/> might be supported within the
>> Genode ecosystem...  and that a collaboration between Kenton and Norman...
>> might end up yielding the nicest Client / Server framework / protocol stack
>> the world might have the privilege to enjoy.
>>
>> 3. That people with significant technical vision and influence, will see
>> the ultimate level of creativity that will be leveraged if SandStorm.io
>> <https://sandstorm.io/> and genode-labs.com <http://genode.org/> would
>> be provided with real financial support for striving towards the
>> inter-operation of these significant advancements of a better foundation
>> for network based computation.
>>
>> 4. That SandStorm.io <https://sandstorm.io/>'s open source code
>> <https://github.com/sandstorm-io/sandstorm> might also run eventually on
>> the Pine_64 <https://www.pine64.com/>, within Genode OS
>> <http://genode.org/>, such that the Trusted Computing Base
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_computing_base> of SandStorm
>> <https://sandstorm.io/>'s personal sever system would be further
>> reduced..
>>
>> 5.. That the release of an open source network based (Information/Game
>> Theoretic) Social Decision system kernel, will inspire many to dream about
>> the very bright future that our truly democratic society will begin to
>> explore.
>>
>>    I thus close, requesting that many may choose to support the vision
>> that is already well underway in the implementations of both SandStorm
>> <https://sandstorm.io/> the Genode OS <http://genode.org/>,..  and that
>> such a collaboration will yield a close to ideal foundation upon which this
>> advanced, Information/Game Theoretic Social Design systems might then
>> flourish..
>>
>>    With the greatest of respect for those who would help pull these
>> pieces together.
>>       your's Sincerely
>>            Peter (SaxMan) Lindener.
>>
>> -----------
>>
>>
>
>
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