<div dir="ltr">I'll also add that supporting more kernels (perhaps aside from seL4) is unlikely to help anywhere near as much as stabilizing and documenting the Genode API. Right now, it takes a lot of searching to get even a basic familiarity with any given part of the API (e.g. filesystems). <br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 2:47 PM, John Lee <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jjl@...348..." target="_blank">jjl@...348...</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">On Fri, 8 Jan 2016, Norman Feske wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hi Pontus,<br>
><br>
> welcome to the list and thank you for the thought-provoking comments!<br>
><br>
>> First, I must say that I still have some trouble understanding the use<br>
>> case for Genode as a desktop OS. Not that I don't like the idea but I<br>
>> think this is such an enormous undertaking that a believe might be<br>
>> like aiming too far or maybe like missing lower hanging fruit.<br>
><br>
> I will try to clarify the goal and motivation.<br>
><br>
> The goal is to enable the productive use of Genode by a narrow group of<br>
> users with reasonably with well-defined requirements. I gave two<br>
> examples of such groups, namely us developers and the users of a<br>
> disposable TOR-browser appliance. The immediate goal is *not* to create<br>
> a desktop OS for the masses. This would be unrealistic. But with the<br>
> goal narrowed like this, the aspiration is feasible.<br>
<br>
</span>As a person who aspires to use Genode, and therefore also aspires to see<br>
the community of developers who contribute to Genode grow, what you say<br>
makes sense and I see how the desktop is more important than it might<br>
appear.<br>
<br>
I'm late to the discussion, but for very similar reasons, may I offer<br>
this, perhaps obvious (?) use case as a driver for development: IoT<br>
applications on platforms that are appealing and accessible to "amateur"<br>
IoT developers, who likely are also professional programmers, playing with<br>
Genode in their spare time.<br>
<br>
There is a clear 'itch to scratch' for developers not satisfied with the<br>
IoT marketplace -- security, freedom, hackability. Of course it is a<br>
growth area, so there is less entrenched competition. To make another<br>
obvious point, the risk, cost, and inconvenience of getting started with a<br>
Raspberry Pi that is not one's main desktop/laptop are all very low,<br>
especially since many people already own one that is sitting in a cupboard<br>
unused!<br>
<br>
I don't know what really attracts the developers who contribute the most<br>
-- I think it is probably quite individual -- but two things that it seems<br>
can only help are:<br>
<br>
1. Increasing the audience of potential Genode developers by supporting<br>
popular platforms that can be used for IoT applications, like Raspberry Pi<br>
and Raspberry Pi 2.<br>
<br>
2. People like helping others, so an audience of people not developing<br>
Genode, but using it to develop IoT apps, might encourage some new Genode<br>
developers. To this end, I'd like to suggest targetting ease of getting<br>
"up and running" with these platforms: for example, it would be amazing if<br>
there were a downloadable RPi2 image that one could just write to a micro<br>
SD card, ssh in and run bash and python to process video from the standard<br>
<a href="http://raspberrypi.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">raspberrypi.org</a> camera module. Of course I'm sure this is a lot of work,<br>
but I think even steps towards it are likely to increase the interested<br>
audience who will push it further in that direction.<br>
<br>
<br>
IoT makes a connection between tinkering and work. A similar combination<br>
is arguably what got Linux where it is now...<br>
<br>
<br>
On a separate subject: I'm sure any progress on seL4 will attract new<br>
people.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
John<br>
</font></span><span class="im HOEnZb"><br>
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