Bender and GRUB1 "legacy"
norman.feske at ...1...
Fri Feb 23 12:55:14 CET 2018
I have the impression that your undertaking goes very much against the
grain of our regular work flow. Frankly speaking, I miss the point of
bypassing our tooling and instead manually working with boot modules. We
deliberately moved away from relying on the boot loader to load
individual ROM modules, for a number of reasons:
1. Not all kernels provide the a way for roottask (Genode's core) to
access individual boot modules. In particular seL4 or OKL4 do not.
2. On ARM there is not such concept. Boot loaders on ARM load a kernel
3. For the reasons above, Genode has to provide a way to include the
initial ROM modules in the boot image. Using this mechanism across
all base platforms reduces Genode's complexity and ensures that the
solution is well tested. In contrast, the prior used kernel-specific
code was more fragile.
4. We hit limitations of several multi-boot loaders. E.g., I am thinking
of the GRUB's maximum number of boot modules. With iPXE, we hit
different surprises such as a slightly different convention of how
boot modules are named. By using one unified mechanism, we rule out
these sources of trouble.
5. Shuffling boot modules manually is bug prone. By letting a run script
generate one image that contains all needed ingredients in their
current version eliminates the chance for inconsistencies between
In short, we went into the deep end, experienced the limits of the
multi-boot approach, and decided for a more robust approach. Our tooling
reflects that. It makes it arguably difficult to edit init's
configuration on the fly - as you noted - and requires you to execute
the run script after each change. You present this as a limitation. But
I regard the approach of mutating the boot image manually as misguided.
It is not only bug prone but also evades the versioning of the
individual modifications. In contrast, if you embrace the work with run
scripts, you can always reproduce your scenario and naturally track
modifications using Git.
> PS: A feature request for Genode build system: May be, it would be good
> to add options for etc/build.conf, to disable removing the "genode"
> subdirectory, containing all the binaries, plus optionally generate
> "core" together with "image.elf", so that it will generate a core image
> without embedded modules. It would be more convenient if a developer
> wants to copy modules to some GRUB installation manually. So, one can
> run the run script to generate both the "image.elf" and separate
> binaries. This would allow both to 1) deploy the scenario on test
> machine automatically and 2) copy the scenario manually to GRUB config
> file. For manual copying, it would be more convenient to have separate
> binaries, so they are not duplicated in each scenario image.elf images,
> which both take much space on disk, and the same binaries can be reused
> in many scenarios. Also, with all modules built into the "image.elf", it
> is not very comfortable to edit the "config" files without regenerating
> the "image.elf".
The latter point was indeed a concern we had when unifying the
boot-module handling. However, on closer inspection, we found three
possible scenarios where the mechanism is used:
1. The majority of run scripts are test cases. They are small and are
executed ad-hoc (or automatically) but are never permanently
installed. So sharing binaries across scenarios would not give
2. Run scripts that describe self-sustaining systems, like the
Turmvilla scenario. Here we have a large base system consisting of
many boot modules, maybe even including virtual disk images.
This situation likely corresponds to your's. It would be nice to
reuse selected boot modules (like a virtual disk image) between
scenarios. The single-image approach is clearly limiting.
3. Run scripts that create the boot image of a multi-stage scenario,
like the Sculpt scenario. Here, the boot image contains merely the
components needed to bootstrap a second stage from within Genode.
The initial boot image features a block-device driver, file system,
and fs-rom server. The interesting part happens at a second stage
where the Genode system can access information from the disk
Of these three cases, only the second one would really benefit from
loading individual ROM modules as multi-boot modules. Based on our
experience with Turmvilla, we figured that scenarios of this type -
where a complex system is bootstrapped by the boot loader only - do not
scale well. Since the direction is inherently limiting, we should stop
pursing it but instead embrace systems of the third type.
With Sculpt as the most prominent example of third type, one can already
see the benefits. Thanks to fetching all ingredients from the depot,
executing the run script is fast. The resulting boot image is quite
small (less than 20 MiB) and will stay small even when the second-stage
system grows. The potential benefit of sharing parts of it between
multiple scenario is negligible.
I hope that this background sheds some light on our line of thoughts
that went into the boot-module handling of Genode. Please understand
that we won't like to go back to supporting earlier approaches that
haven't worked out for us.
Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske
https://www.genode-labs.com · https://genode.org
Genode Labs GmbH · Amtsgericht Dresden · HRB 28424 · Sitz Dresden
Geschäftsführer: Dr.-Ing. Norman Feske, Christian Helmuth
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